PS5 |OT| now with PlayStation Portal

[kitler53]

The issue with those mid sized games is that a lot weren't really successful orornor profitable.

While they don't need to buy housemarque games, they could also be lost as devs who do exclusives like what happened with quantic dream or even insomniac with sunset overdrive (I really hope sony can bring this to PS).

I agree, they need multiplayer focused games. But their current offerings are making them a lot of money and that route seems the safest to them.

the key to have a huge user base is to have something for everyone not everything for someone.  

so sony should see themselves as a counter weight to the rest of the industry.  get or make games in the areas not well represented on their platform.  i disagree that sony needs to do multiplayer.  i mean they can try if they want to but,.. between CoD, fornight, rocket league, and fall guys there is a ton of high quality multiplayer on playstation.  multiplayer more than anything has a cap on how many games can be supported because it requires a community to play.   i think uncharted 4 mp did quite well too.  but all  in all this doesn't need to be a huge focus for sony.

where i think sony (and ms) are really weak are frankly the areas nintendo does well.  kids games.  platformers.  adventure games. rpgs.   i mean, i don't want a switch but my kid is 6 now and we have almost finished all of the lego games.  i'll probably have get him a switch for his birthday so that we can keep gaming together.

i think sony is also weak in the low/mid teir games.  indie does in fact scratch at this area but also indie is like 1000% more on pc than playstation and the truely good games are far and few between.  but these games are cheap to make.  supergiant games put out 3 well received games this gen and are only a 20 person studio.  sony could afford to have 5 of these studios around and have a new game to ship about every 5 months.   i'm not sure how nintendo took the indie crown from playstation but sony should work to earn it back.  

[kitler53]

Sony have a reputation now, multiplayer and RPGs don't fit into that. I don't think people would trust Sony to put out a game of their usual high quality in those genres and besides we have so many of them from other devs anyway.

Buying more devs who are well known with these genres would work but their current studios should stick with what they're currently doing, its immensley successful.

i dunno about that.  GG made a massive transition from KZ to H:ZD.   and that was very well received.   same with GoW.   I think transitions can be fine.

...but getting into new genres should necessarily come as the expense of have a high quality studio keep doing their great work.  my problem with sony right now is if you list their top games this generation:
- uncharted
- TLoU
- horizon
- GoW
- days gone
- GoT
- spider man

...you see a lot of third person open world games.  it's a great genre to be working in but i feel like it's over represented in sony's first party.   they need a bit more variety. 

[Xevross]

i dunno about that.  GG made a massive transition from KZ to H:ZD.   and that was very well received.   same with GoW.   I think transitions can be fine.

...but getting into new genres should necessarily come as the expense of have a high quality studio keep doing their great work.  my problem with sony right now is if you list their top games this generation:
- uncharted
- TLoU
- horizon
- GoW
- days gone
- GoT
- spider man

...you see a lot of third person open world games.  it's a great genre to be working in but i feel like it's over represented in sony's first party.   they need a bit more variety.  

Guerrilla move was good but it shouldn't be the norm, most studios have found what they're best at now. God of War wasn't too much of a transition either.

Yes you do see a lot of similar games which was exactly my point and I see that as a good thing. People know Sony are the best at these games, if its a completely different genre then the guarantee is lost.

Also you are missing GT7 & Driveclub as top racing games, R&C, Astro Bot and LBP/Sackboy as platformers. Also an action adventure Uncharted is very different to a game like Ghost of Tsushima. The Last of Us and Spider-Man have very little in common.

Any RPG and FPS games from their current studios would be a bad move, imo. We're seeing some fresh stuff with their upcoming next gen lineup but they're still sticking with their strengths, I think its the right strategy.

[the-pi-guy]

I do agree with the multiplayer bit. CoD, Fortnite, etc are there.  

But I don't agree with the RPG bit. I don't think a big RPG is that far off from what Horizon is.  Even God of War has a fair amount of RPG elements. Bloodborne is absolutely an RPG.  

I don't think Sony has built themselves as specifically a third person action-adventure company, even though a lot of their biggest titles are that.  But I think they have built themselves as a single player story company which RPGs fit into that.  

They actually consider Horizon to be an action adventure RPG. Mechanically that game has more in common with Skyrim, than it has with Killzone I would say.  Even though it lacks some of the RPG elements, I wouldn't say it's that far off.  

[Xevross]

I do agree with the multiplayer bit. CoD, Fortnite, etc are there.  

But I don't agree with the RPG bit. I don't think a big RPG is that far off from what Horizon is.  Even God of War has a fair amount of RPG elements. Bloodborne is absolutely an RPG.  

I don't think Sony has built themselves as specifically a third person action-adventure company, even though a lot of their biggest titles are that.  But I think they have built themselves as a single player story company which RPGs fit into that.  

They actually consider Horizon to be an action adventure RPG. Mechanically that game has more in common with Skyrim, than it has with Killzone I would say.  Even though it lacks some of the RPG elements, I wouldn't say it's that far off.  

Well yes that's right and that's as far as Sony should be taking RPGs.

[the-pi-guy]

Well yes that's right and that's as far as Sony should be taking RPGs.

"Should be"

It must hurt to be so wrong.

[kitler53]

Guerrilla move was good but it shouldn't be the norm, most studios have found what they're best at now. God of War wasn't too much of a transition either.

you mad bro.

Yes you do see a lot of similar games which was exactly my point and I see that as a good thing. People know Sony are the best at these games, if its a completely different genre then the guarantee is lost.

Also you are missing GT7 & Driveclub as top racing games, R&C, Astro Bot and LBP/Sackboy as platformers. Also an action adventure Uncharted is very different to a game like Ghost of Tsushima. The Last of Us and Spider-Man have very little in common.

i didn't mean to say that TLoU and Uncharted was anything like the rest.  But Uncharted and TLoU as pretty simular as you'd expect since they are both ND.  I said "a lot of third person open world games"  not exclusively.   too much simularity in their top teir games was my only point.

yes, i should have included GT.  Fair point but I probably should have also included Infamous Second Son.   

I excluded astro bot and lbp on purpose.  i'm sorry if you disagree but LBP 3 was a terrible game handed over to a studio not good enough to handle the property.  I don't think anyone can make a sound argument that sony even attempted to make this a system seller.  it was a mid-teir game given to a low-teir developer and it shows.    Astro bot was a great game but clearly a mid-teir effort,.. the exact kind of game i wish they'd make more of (see earlier post) but not a top-teir effort.

lol drive club.  clearly aiming for AAA but blotched.   this game never made sense to me anyways because GT is already such a huge franchise.   why of why did sony approve two sim racer franchises?!?  the genre is popular enough to need two.

Any RPG and FPS games from their current studios would be a bad move, imo. We're seeing some fresh stuff with their upcoming next gen lineup but they're still sticking with their strengths, I think its the right strategy.

i'm not saying i disagree with that necessarily.  personally i think days gone is the best example of a bad use of first party resources.  the studio didn't have a long list of prior games set expectations for what they are capable.  they worked on resistance and uncharted and syphon filter.   they really could have done anything from there.  I think they could have found more success by finding something a bit more unique in sony's first party line-up.   as is days gone feels like last on the list of games to play only if you already played sony's other third person open world shooters..

[kitler53]

I do agree with the multiplayer bit. CoD, Fortnite, etc are there.  

But I don't agree with the RPG bit. I don't think a big RPG is that far off from what Horizon is.  Even God of War has a fair amount of RPG elements. Bloodborne is absolutely an RPG.  

I don't think Sony has built themselves as specifically a third person action-adventure company, even though a lot of their biggest titles are that.  But I think they have built themselves as a single player story company which RPGs fit into that.  

They actually consider Horizon to be an action adventure RPG. Mechanically that game has more in common with Skyrim, than it has with Killzone I would say.  Even though it lacks some of the RPG elements, I wouldn't say it's that far off.  

i agree with the horizon bit.  we'll see what forbidden west brings but it seems like they tried to work in the RPG elements to be "fallout like" but just didn't quite make the mark.  hopefully they can move the franchise in that direction a bit.  i liked the story line but more freedom would be nice.


oh god, i forgot the list bloodborne as one of sony's top teir game last gen.   i'm an idiot.   

[Xevross]

you mad bro.
i didn't mean to say that TLoU and Uncharted was anything like the rest.  But Uncharted and TLoU as pretty simular as you'd expect since they are both ND.  I said "a lot of third person open world games"  not exclusively.   too much simularity in their top teir games was my only point.

yes, i should have included GT.  Fair point but I probably should have also included Infamous Second Son.  

I excluded astro bot and lbp on purpose.  i'm sorry if you disagree but LBP 3 was a terrible game handed over to a studio not good enough to handle the property.  I don't think anyone can make a sound argument that sony even attempted to make this a system seller.  it was a mid-teir game given to a low-teir developer and it shows.    Astro bot was a great game but clearly a mid-teir effort,.. the exact kind of game i wish they'd make more of (see earlier post) but not a top-teir effort.

lol drive club.  clearly aiming for AAA but blotched.   this game never made sense to me anyways because GT is already such a huge franchise.   why of why did sony approve two sim racer franchises?!?  the genre is popular enough to need two.i'm not saying i disagree with that necessarily.  personally i think days gone is the best example of a bad use of first party resources.  the studio didn't have a long list of prior games set expectations for what they are capable.  they worked on resistance and uncharted and syphon filter.   they really could have done anything from there.  I think they could have found more success by finding something a bit more unique in sony's first party line-up.   as is days gone feels like last on the list of games to play only if you already played sony's other third person open world shooters..

LBP3 sucked but its still a title they pushed at e3 and Sackboy is a game they're pushing now. We're talking about first party games that Sony is promoting, how much they appeal to people and therefore sell is less important. Astro Bot isn't really that big but its another platformer. Sony are still pretty good with platformers. Its not their main focus but they make platforming games and that's diversity. Its probably the level you want them to make other genres.

Driveclub had a botched launch but quickly became amazing once it was fixed and in the end after incredible post launch support its the best racing game ever imo. Also its not a sim, its closer to arcade. Racing is still big and 2 racing games on the whole gen for PS4 is actually not great from Sony but its okay I guess.

And yeah I'll agree on Days Gone, Bend are the one studio I'd say sure do something new because I really couldn't care less for Days Gone and it didn't review very well. Their other big studios are all pretty much amazing at what they do. Bend are not.

Horizon would be worse if it went more into RPG stuff for my taste, it was pretty much at the limit already.

Basically my argument is that Sony's devs are almost all amazing at what they do and have a reputation now. It wouldn't make sense for them to change and I don't want them to. They should create new studios and buy new studios if they want to go into new genres, or let their smaller studios grow and try more stuff. Naughty Dog, Insomniac, Santa Monica, San Diego, Sucker Punch, Guerrilla, Polyphony, Media Molecule are all already doing what they do best and its varied enough. They finally built up their reputation with PS4, it'd be a shame to risk it or not use it by doing something totally different.

Naughty Dog could mix it up a bit if the new San Diego studio replaces them on Uncharted style games. Media Molecule could try actually making games again. Japan studio do lots of unique stuff already but could mix it up more. PixelOpus could grow a lot and do something unique like Concrete Genie on a bigger scale. Bend should stop with the generic zombie shame.

[kitler53]

LBP3 sucked but its still a title they pushed at e3 and Sackboy is a game they're pushing now. We're talking about first party games that Sony is promoting, how much they appeal to people and therefore sell is less important. Astro Bot isn't really that big but its another platformer. Sony are still pretty good with platformers. Its not their main focus but they make platforming games and that's diversity. Its probably the level you want them to make other genres.

Driveclub had a botched launch but quickly became amazing once it was fixed and in the end after incredible post launch support its the best racing game ever imo. Also its not a sim, its closer to arcade. Racing is still big and 2 racing games on the whole gen for PS4 is actually not great from Sony but its okay I guess.

And yeah I'll agree on Days Gone, Bend are the one studio I'd say sure do something new because I really couldn't care less for Days Gone and it didn't review very well. Their other big studios are all pretty much amazing at what they do. Bend are not.

Horizon would be worse if it went more into RPG stuff for my taste, it was pretty much at the limit already.

Basically my argument is that Sony's devs are almost all amazing at what they do and have a reputation now. It wouldn't make sense for them to change and I don't want them to. They should create new studios and buy new studios if they want to go into new genres, or let their smaller studios grow and try more stuff. Naughty Dog, Insomniac, Santa Monica, San Diego, Sucker Punch, Guerrilla, Polyphony, Media Molecule are all already doing what they do best and its varied enough. They finally built up their reputation with PS4, it'd be a shame to risk it or not use it by doing something totally different.

Naughty Dog could mix it up a bit if the new San Diego studio replaces them on Uncharted style games. Media Molecule could try actually making games again. Japan studio do lots of unique stuff already but could mix it up more. PixelOpus could grow a lot and do something unique like Concrete Genie on a bigger scale. Bend should stop with the generic zombie shame.

generally i agree with you.  one of the things i love about sony is they seem content to let development teams work on what they want to work on.  you can really see the passion for their games in the work they complete.  I wouldn't force changes on any of the studios but at the same time i think sony should influence or suggest they work on types of projects that give playstation studio's overall a more well rounded output.  honestly this wasn't a problem on ps2 or ps3.  only on ps4 do i think first party got a bit to "samey".  

basically i'm saying get more studios but don't get studios that feel like ND or SM.   In summary:
- force MM to make games and not game engines.  they make amazing games.  to not make even 1 game for all of ps4 is such a fudgy waste.  ..and yes i'm intentionally not counting dreams because from everything i've read it had almost no campain from MM.

- put bend on a new IP and not days gone 2.

- acquire new studios that WANT to work on big (mid-teir) games that aren't soo dark and first person shootery.  Kena or R&C-esque games are my target here.  high quality AAA that aims to look more like "pixar" than dark and dystopian and super high detailed graphics.  dark games are stressful and sometimes i just want something more light-hearted.  also these would be cheaper to make overall which would mean games more than once every 5 years.  astro bot was great.  so far i'm really impressed with sackboy a big adventure.  but add in knack, rachet and clank, and lbp 3 we we are talking 6 games in the entire generation and 3 of them were crud.

- acquire or start about 5 high quality low-tier developers.  i really, really miss the psn titles from the ps3 era and early ps4 era.  they've given up here but some of my favorite titles include: echochrome, pixal junk shooter 1 and 2, sound shapes, escape plan, flower, journey, unfinished swan, hohokum, and fat princess.  

[Xevross]

generally i agree with you.  one of the things i love about sony is they seem content to let development teams work on what they want to work on.  you can really see the passion for their games in the work they complete.  I wouldn't force changes on any of the studios but at the same time i think sony should influence or suggest they work on types of projects that give playstation studio's overall a more well rounded output.  honestly this wasn't a problem on ps2 or ps3.  only on ps4 do i think first party got a bit to "samey".  

basically i'm saying get more studios but don't get studios that feel like ND or SM.   In summary:
- force MM to make games and not game engines.  they make amazing games.  to not make even 1 game for all of ps4 is such a fudgy waste.  ..and yes i'm intentionally not counting dreams because from everything i've read it had almost no campain from MM.

- put bend on a new IP and not days gone 2.

- acquire new studios that WANT to work on big (mid-teir) games that aren't soo dark and first person shootery.  Kena or R&C-esque games are my target here.  high quality AAA that aims to look more like "pixar" than dark and dystopian and super high detailed graphics.  dark games are stressful and sometimes i just want something more light-hearted.  also these would be cheaper to make overall which would mean games more than once every 5 years.  astro bot was great.  so far i'm really impressed with sackboy a big adventure.  but add in knack, rachet and clank, and lbp 3 we we are talking 6 games in the entire generation and 3 of them were crud.

- acquire or start about 5 high quality low-tier developers.  i really, really miss the psn titles from the ps3 era and early ps4 era.  they've given up here but some of my favorite titles include: echochrome, pixal junk shooter 1 and 2, sound shapes, escape plan, flower, journey, unfinished swan, hohokum, and fat princess.  

PS4 was the one that had a problem with being samey but it was also the best gen for first party Sony games by a long long way. Building a reputation for a type of game really works.

- yeah Dreams kinda sucks. I hate to say it but it is just a game engine that's accessible to all and while its cool it does not help the PS brand in any way, it isn't popular and Media Molecule's creativity is totally absent. You're right it had almost no campaign, it was a 2-3 hour weird thing with super low production values that would have got absolutely blasted by all media if it was put out as an actual game. MM are a game dev studio, they should make games.

- 100% no days gone 2 plz

- indeed, housemarque working on returnal level games would be perfect. And yes I think Sony needs more light hearted stuff for sure

- more smaller studios would be great. PixelOpus are awesome and exactly the right size for this, 4-5 more studios on that level to steadily put out smaller games would be fantastic.

[BananaKing]

Yall are crazy. Yes for days gone 2. That secret ending was crazy.

[kitler53]

PS4 was the one that had a problem with being samey but it was also the best gen for first party Sony games by a long long way. Building a reputation for a type of game really works.

- yeah Dreams kinda sucks. I hate to say it but it is just a game engine that's accessible to all and while its cool it does not help the PS brand in any way, it isn't popular and Media Molecule's creativity is totally absent. You're right it had almost no campaign, it was a 2-3 hour weird thing with super low production values that would have got absolutely blasted by all media if it was put out as an actual game. MM are a game dev studio, they should make games.

- 100% no days gone 2 plz

- indeed, housemarque working on returnal level games would be perfect. And yes I think Sony needs more light hearted stuff for sure

- more smaller studios would be great. PixelOpus are awesome and exactly the right size for this, 4-5 more studios on that level to steadily put out smaller games would be fantastic.

well i'm glad we are in full agreement with how to move playstation studios forward.   now all that's left is for us to split Hermen Hulst's paycheck between us..

[Xevross]

Yall are crazy. Yes for days gone 2. That secret ending was crazy.

Open world zombies is trash.

[the-pi-guy]

Game devs seem to love PS5.

Two at digital foundry have on different occasions mentioned that developers are happy with the system, even moreso than the XSX.  And that there are going to be some surprises.  

Matt has implied several times the 10.3 is genuinely the level of performance you can expect at basically any time. (not always but it's the typical performance)

Open world zombies is trash.

So many bad opinions. *smh*

Spoiler for Hidden:

Jk. I like the idea, but I don&#39;t know of any open world zombie games that really executed it well. &nbsp;<br><br>So I half agree, half disagree. <br>