Twitter now owned by xAI - company founded by Elon Musk

[kitler53]

Oh goodie.  Whataboutism.  

I don't think i've said so much as 1 sentence about zuckerberg here. He's no saint but any shaming thing he has done doesn't forgive that musk has been even shittier.  ..or at the very least quite openly and publically shaming. 

[SWORDF1SH]

Oh goodie.  Whataboutism.  

I don't think i've said so much as 1 sentence about zuckerberg here. He's no saint but any shaming thing he has done doesn't forgive that musk has been even shittier.  ..or at the very least quite openly and publically shaming.

Just openly promoted Threads. Not going to make friends today am I but  because you have a massive chip on your shoulder with daddy issues, don't take it out on the world. Most of the time you shout people down and people can't be bothered to engage with you.  

[the-pi-guy]

Well kitler an Pi would be going crazy if Elon said this  :o

As I said, they're both terrible people.
Why are you under this impression that we are not upset about Zuckerberg doing this? Why are you under this impression that we would be more upset if Elon did this than Zuckerberg?

The gist I'm getting from this that if you're straight, you can't have an opinion

Where did I say that?

and  a term used for a majority can't be a slur? Am I correct?  Because that's battleship.

Why can't you explain to me how "cis" can be derogatory?
Who does it insult?
Do you know cis means?

And how can me wanting to hear both sides be bad? Why do you always try and pull me to the left side of thinking. Like there's not one thing on the right you can accept is correct.

That's not what I said.

This is what I said:

I love these talking points being discussed. But a lot of these discussions are being filled with lies, with the express purpose of hurting people.

Fundamentally though, because I can just about guarantee that we don't have the same definition of left/right wing.  

The casual US definition of left/right wing has basically become about big government vs small government; despite the fact that's not the global/political science definition.  

That definition is basically about treating people equally. People should have the same access to healthcare, that's a left wing position.

You look at things simply to justify why I'm wrong and make presumptions to make yourself right. Like, and since we are the Elon/Twitter thread, the conclusions you jump to to always paint Elon in a bad light.

Where have I made presumptions?

I'm pretty sure I've said all of this before.

You're barely ever critical of Elon. And that is concerning. Elon is one of the richest, most powerful people on the planet. Same as Zuckerberg. These people don't need you to defend them. They should not have that power in the first place.

[BananaKing]

Well kitler an Pi would be going crazy if Elon said this  

Mark Zuckerberg talking about Facebook users pic.twitter.com/NhWDh7t50S

— Andrew (@andrewmichaelio) July 6, 2023

The gist I'm getting from this that if you're straight, you can't have an opinion and  a term used for a majority can't be a slur? Am I correct?  Because that's battleship.

And how can me wanting to hear both sides be bad? Why do you always try and pull me to the left side of thinking. Like there's not one thing on the right you can accept is correct. You look at things simply to justify why I'm wrong and make presumptions to make yourself right. Like, and since we are the Elon/Twitter thread, the conclusions you jump to to always paint Elon in a bad light.

I've been reading this argument for a while and I wasn't sure if I wanted to join or not. But I generally agree with what you're saying. I personally want Elon and his Twitter initiative to work because I believe in the importance of free speech.

As for the "cis" argument, I find it hypocritical how words are somehow banned left and right, yet if someone complains about the word cis being used, they are considered bigots.

Personally, I am not offended by it because I'm not fragile and I endured much much worse In my lifetime. But I'm not a cis anything. I'm a male and that's it's. And I won't entertain the idea of me having to use it.

[SWORDF1SH]

As I said, they're both terrible people.
Why are you under this impression that we are not upset about Zuckerberg doing this? Why are you under this impression that we would be more upset if Elon did this than Zuckerberg?

Elon is hardly terrible though is he.  Is he terrible because his views opposes yours?

Where did I say that?

Maybe I misinterpreted what you said. What did you mean by this? "I don't think 'Talking points about straight people' is the same thing as 'straight people talking point'"
I originally read it as talking points about straight people is ok and talking points from straight people is irrelevant. Seems I got it wrong.

Why can't you explain to me how "cis" can be derogatory?
Who does it insult?
Do you know cis means?

It's about context and you know this.  Stop asking me if I know what it means. I know and it's irelevant.

                               

That's not what I said.

This is what I said:
Quote
I love these talking points being discussed. But a lot of these discussions are being filled with lies, with the express purpose of hurting people.

And that's the difficult part. Unless you witness it first hand or have contextual evidence, you don't know the exact truth. You yourself spread misinformation yourself or add your bias when talking about Elon. Before you ask for example, go through these pages. And I think we've been through what's left and right. You know what people mean when they say left and right. I don't care for a deep discussion of what is left and what is right.

Where have I made presumptions?

I'm pretty sure I've said all of this before.

You're barely ever critical of Elon. And that is concerning. Elon is one of the richest, most powerful people on the planet. Same as Zuckerberg. These people don't need you to defend them. They should not have that power in the first place

Your latest one being Elon is mad over competition not Meta stealing from Twitter.  Honestly though, that's one of your fairer opinions.  I do defend him a lot. So. I like Elon, I think he's a decent human being and I believe he wants to good for humanity.  *please don't post the  'weird nerd defending Elon' meme   *

[the-pi-guy]

Elon is hardly terrible though is he.  Is he terrible because his views opposes yours?

He's a terrible person because he is endangering people:
- he's spread covid misinformation, and blatantly ignored safety precautions
- transgender misinformation
- has promoted conspiracy theories based off nothing.
- he's also a billionaire, and has made that money by taking advantage of people and governments and isn't supportive of other people getting those same opportunities.


The only view that I care about, is that people should be protected against harm. If someone believes that is wrong, and that people should be harmed for who they are, then yeah I think those people are terrible.

If someone thinks Jews/straight people/gay people/trans people/people that like potatoes should be harmed for being Jews/straight people/gay people/etc; then I think that person is a bad person.  

Maybe I misinterpreted what you said. What did you mean by this? "I don't think 'Talking points about straight people' is the same thing as 'straight people talking point'"
I originally read it as talking points about straight people is ok and talking points from straight people is irrelevant. Seems I got it wrong.

You were talking about one, and I was interpreting it as the other.

I don't think there's a such thing as "straight people talking points", which is the original phrasing you used. And I was questioning that phrasing. Whereas your follow up comment, you said "of course there are talking points about straight people".

I am simply saying that I don't think your two sentences had the same meaning.  

It's about context and you know this.  Stop asking me if I know what it means. I know and it's irelevant.

Okay, give me a context where it's derogatory.  

And that's the difficult part. Unless you witness it first hand or have contextual evidence, you don't know the exact truth. You yourself spread misinformation yourself or add your bias when talking about Elon. Before you ask for example, go through these pages. And I think we've been through what's left and right. You know what people mean when they say left and right. I don't care for a deep discussion of what is left and what is right.

No I don't, because people have different definitions.  

Your latest one being Elon is mad over competition not Meta stealing from Twitter.

Where did I presume this?

[SWORDF1SH]

Back on phone so back to stuff not being quoted because it's a baby to do.


That stuff about Elon is a bit dramatic don't you think.. And why can't  we entertain ideas of 'conspiracy theories' when 'conspiracy theories' in the past have proven to be true.
And the word 'conspiracy theory' along with 'misinformation' and 'disinformation' and obviously buzz words to censor people of give social platforms the power to censor people.  And you get your news from reddit soooo...

Straight people talking points?  It's got to the point it's not important anymore.

The cis argument. You're all for understanding and not causing harm to people but think cis isn't a slur but probably millions reject the word on don't like being called it to the point, and the one Elon replied to, somebody on Twitter asked to  not be called cis and then was be called cissy. It's a slur. I have a similar stance to BananaKing  on this.

And the last point , your reply to kitler
Quote from: kitler53 on Yesterday at 02:10:56

any actual evidence of "cheating" or is this just that he fired most of his staff and he's mad they had the audacity to find new jobs in their profession?

"He's just upset that it's becoming popular."

If it's true that Meta didn't have ex Twitter employees then your point is even more valid. I did say that this opinion wasn't bad though.

[the-pi-guy]

Back on phone so back to stuff not being quoted because it's a baby to do.


That stuff about Elon is a bit dramatic don't you think.. And why can't  we entertain ideas of 'conspiracy theories' when 'conspiracy theories' in the past have proven to be true.
And the word 'conspiracy theory' along with 'misinformation' and 'disinformation' and obviously buzz words to censor people of give social platforms the power to censor people.

It is not about "conspiracy theories" in general. But plenty of conspiracy theories are spread to cause harm.

 Plenty of Asian people were attacked due to COVID conspiracy theories.

Plenty of Muslim people were attacked due to 9/11.

Do you think lies don't exist/ do you think they're exclusively on the left?

Do you think lies are never harmful?

And you get your news from reddit soooo...

I get my news from all kinds of sources. I'm not sure how it's relevant.

Straight people talking points?  It's got to the point it's not important anymore.

It never was important. I was just wondering what the heck "LGBT talking points" were.  

The cis argument. You're all for understanding and not causing harm to people but think cis isn't a slur but probably millions reject the word on don't like being called it to the point, and the one Elon replied to, somebody on Twitter asked to  not be called cis and then was be called cissy. It's a slur. I have a similar stance to BananaKing  on this.

Cis just means not trans.

People also don't like being called short, and there's lots of other words people don't like being called for nonsense reasons, that doesn't make those words a slur and worthy of being banned.

And the last point , your reply to kitler
Quote from: kitler53 on Yesterday at 02:10:56
"He's just upset that it's becoming popular."

If it's true that Meta didn't have ex Twitter employees then your point is even more valid. I did say that this opinion wasn't bad though.

Sorry for some reason I thought you said something else there.

But frankly that is pretty much the nicer interpretation.
As Kitler said, he absolutely doesn't have a case even if the scenario he thinks happened, actually did happen.

[SWORDF1SH]

I'll keep it short. Bed time

Covid always from China. Conspiracy theories have little to do attacks on Asians.

Lies aren't exclusively left. Hell no.

Lies are harmful but I'm not trading my freedom of speech and right to question anything. It Will turn on you.

Sorry about the sassy reddit remark. It was more lighthearted than anything.

Lgbt talking points like trans women in women sports.  What age somebody can change naughtiness. What young kids should be taught in school etc.

Being called short can totally be discrimination.  Again. Context.

Last point, I agree.

Goodnight

[the-pi-guy]

Covid always from China. Conspiracy theories have little to do attacks on Asians.

These two things are not the same.
Everyone knows that Covid came from China. Was it intentionally released?

The best conspiracy theories have a kernel of truth.

Lies are harmful but I'm not trading my freedom of speech and right to question anything. It Will turn on you.

I'm a vehement believer in freedom of speech.

I'm a strong believer that people should be informed.

I didn't/don't agree with Twitter/other sites banning certain conversations. And I don't agree with Elon banning words he doesn't like based on *reasons*.

My personal favorite approach, is what some sites do where they let you say whatever you want, but then they add a little tag to controversial posts where it says "click here to learn more about this topic".


If you're a believer in free speech, then believe in free speech, even when it's not convenient for you.

Lgbt talking points like trans women in women sports.  What age somebody can change naughtiness. What young kids should be taught in school etc.

A lot of these conversations are filled with lies, with the intent of harming trans people. Like claims that young children are getting surgeries. Or even that trans people in general get surgeries.
Lots of lies about how small children are being taught about naughtiness. All in an attempt to justify ignoring the existence of LGBT people.

Just like the "cis being a slur" conversation.

Ironically JK Rowling put a reason into words:

'Cis' is ideological language, signifying belief in the unfalsifiable concept of gender identity. You have a perfect right to believe in unprovable essences that may or may not match the sexed body, but the rest of us have a right to disagree, and to refuse to adopt your jargon.

It's not because cis is being used to disparage (somehow). It's because it validates trans people's existence.

Being called short can totally be discrimination.  Again. Context.

"Slur" has a specific meaning.

[SWORDF1SH]

These two things are not the same.
Everyone knows that Covid came from China. Was it intentionally released?

The best conspiracy theories have a kernel of truth.

I made that statement because that's the stupid reason there were Asians getting attacked. Not because of a conspiracy theory that the virus was released on purpose. The main theory going around was that in was a lab leak because, well duh! And that was labelled as a conspiracy theory so the narrative could be controlled. They were happily spreading that it was spread by people from a chinese market which ws never labelled as a conspiracy theory. Can you tell me why? I'm pretty sure spreading around that ordinary Chinese people causing a covid outbreak is more damaging to ordinary Chinese people than it being leaked from a lab that had American funding.

The terms 'conspiracy theory', misinformation, and disinformation is being used to silence people and control the narrative.

I'm a vehement believer in freedom of speech.

From what you say I do not believe you are. You say what you want to say and believe there should be censorship in what you believe shouldn't be open for discussion.

I'm a strong believer that people should be informed.

Yes, but you also push you beliefs with your information.  There's no room for discussion. It's almost like you're to lecture because what's right to you should be right for everybody else. What you believe is hate, everybody should also believe it's hate.

I didn't/don't agree with Twitter/other sites banning certain conversations. And I don't agree with Elon banning words he doesn't like based on *reasons*.

Elon hasn't banned cis, if that's the word you're eluding to  Misinformation.

My personal favorite approach, is what some sites do where they let you say whatever you want, but then they add a little tag to controversial posts where it says "click here to learn more about this topic".

Elon did something similar with community notes. Well community notes already existed in a different form in Twitter 1.0 but Elon has pushed this hard to make the information on Twitter more trustworthy. Not perfect but it's great.

If you're a believer in free speech, then believe in free speech, even when it's not convenient for you.

Not sure what you mean. You're the wanting some form of censorship.

A lot of these conversations are filled with lies, with the intent of harming trans people. Like claims that young children are getting surgeries. Or even that trans people in general get surgeries.
Lots of lies about how small children are being taught about naughtiness. All in an attempt to justify ignoring the existence of LGBT people.

Don't know about children getting naughtiness change surgeries, I hear more about puberty blockers and wanting to make make surgeries available at a young age. That's where i see most of the push back.

Just like the "cis being a slur" conversation.

Ironically JK Rowling put a reason into words:
Quote from: JK Rowling
'Cis' is ideological language, signifying belief in the unfalsifiable concept of gender identity. You have a perfect right to believe in unprovable essences that may or may not match the sexed body, but the rest of us have a right to disagree, and to refuse to adopt your jargon.


It's not because cis is being used to disparage (somehow). It's because it validates trans people's existence.

Strong opinion from JK as usual, I disagree with parts and believe trans people should be treated as trans people. But I agree with the rest. Cis doesn't need to exist to validate trans people. I believe that you and a lot of others believe it was introduced for good reasons. Others believe the opposite.  Cis doesn't need to a thing

"Slur" has a specific meaning.

You are right but I guess I was just trying to say that words like 'short' and therefor 'cis' can be used for hate in the right context.

[kitler53]

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/suspended-twitter-account-tracking-elon-160011591.html

Jack Sweeney, the creator of an account tracking Elon Musk's private jet in real time, has moved to Mark Zuckerberg's Twitter-rival Threads after being suspended from Twitter last year.

"ElonJet has arrived to Threads!" read Sweeney's first post on Thursday from the account handle @elonmusksjet, which had over 21,000 followers as of Saturday morning.

[SWORDF1SH]

Lol. The funny thing is, because of this whole debacle, ElonJet is even more known  and now it has a platform where it can be even bigger than before.

[the-pi-guy]

I propose a literal dick measuring contest ????

— Elon Musk (@elonmusk) July 10, 2023

What a nice man, showing Zuck how to use a ruler.

[kitler53]

c'mon Pi.  don't let yourself get influenced by lame-stream media to dislike elon.   he's such a "good guy"....