MS feels like they are ahead of Sony

[Legend]

And if series X does indeed prove to be a better console overall, as its looking right now, that means PS5 will be relegated to being just my playstation games machine.

I'm in the same boat, but mostly because the only games I'll actually buy will be playstation exclusives.

Series X will be amazing for all my old xbox and xbox 360 discs, and for gamepass whenever I want to subscribe.

PS5 will be amazing for all my old PS4 games, PS+, and the rare game that I buy.

[kitler53]

I'm in the same boat, but mostly because the only games I'll actually buy will be playstation exclusives.

Series X will be amazing for all my old xbox and xbox 360 discs, and for gamepass whenever I want to subscribe.

PS5 will be amazing for all my old PS4 games, PS+, and the rare game that I buy.

rare is on xbox and gamepass..

[Legend]

rare is on xbox and gamepass..

[kitler53]

it's all in the set-up.   it was too perfect to not say it.  xD

[Xevross]

I wanna see how the remaster looks first. On paper it sounds like they've put a lot of work into it to upgrade the game.

Yeah for sure but the optics of this are so terrible. Even a cheap upgrade option stating the dev work gone into significant improvements would be much better.

[DerNebel]

Yeah for sure but the optics of this are so terrible. Even a cheap upgrade option stating the dev work gone into significant improvements would be much better.

I'm assuming a standalone option might come later. Even though I'm questioning how big the market for people who are not going to buy Miles Morales but who would buy the PS5 upgrade for Spider-Man 2018 by itself actually is.

Twitter racists who don't want to play a black Spider-Man?

[Xevross]

I'm assuming a standalone option might come later. Even though I'm questioning how big the market for people who are not going to buy Miles Morales but who would buy the PS5 upgrade for Spider-Man 2018 by itself actually is.

Twitter racists who don't want to play a black Spider-Man?

Basically yeah. Spidey remastered is essentially a $20 upgrade for Miles owners (jstevenson confirmed that if you have the PS4 or PS5 version of the game and play it on PS5 there will be an option to buy Spidey remastered for $20). I think that should also be expanded to original Spidey owners too and perhaps made only $10 or free if people own all DLCs.

[darkknightkryta]

Basically yeah. Spidey remastered is essentially a $20 upgrade for Miles owners (jstevenson confirmed that if you have the PS4 or PS5 version of the game and play it on PS5 there will be an option to buy Spidey remastered for $20). I think that should also be expanded to original Spidey owners too and perhaps made only $10 or free if people own all DLCs.

There's something called goodwill.  Sony has none of that.   It technically won't cost them anything to upgrade Spider-man for previous consumers.  I mean, at least give it to those who bought the game digitally.  I have no incentive to buy a PS5 when I can get Miles and Horizon on PS4 and Sony can't even be arsed to give me an upgrade as a "Here, you bought a PS5, here's what an upgrade of your Spider-man will be like on new hardware"

[kitler53]

There's something called goodwill.  Sony has none of that.   It technically won't cost them anything to upgrade Spider-man for previous consumers.  I mean, at least give it to those who bought the game digitally.  I have no incentive to buy a PS5 when I can get Miles and Horizon on PS4 and Sony can't even be arsed to give me an upgrade as a "Here, you bought a PS5, here's what an upgrade of your Spider-man will be like on new hardware"

18 free ps4 games adds no good will at all?   99% BC with ps4 adds no good will at all?

boy how fast have expectations changed from last gen. previously no games moved forward from gen to gen and suddenly it's not even good enough to have full BC with your last gen games library,.. you're games library needs to be actively updated every gen to leverage the new hardware for free.

i'm getting really worried about ps5 at this point.  seems as if anything less than free ps studio games for life and sony is a bad guy.  MS is clearly going to monopolize the entire video game industry by the time next gen starts between acquisitions and kamikaze policies.  let's see how much a pro-consumer nice guy MS will be once they eliminate the competition..

[Xevross]

18 free ps4 games adds no good will at all?   99% BC with ps4 adds no good will at all?

boy how fast have expectations changed from last gen. it's no longer enough to continue playing your games library,.. you're games library needs to be actively updated every gen to leverage the new hardware for free.

i'm getting really worried about ps5 at this point.  seems as if anything less than free ps studio games for life and sony is a bad guy.  MS is clearly going to monopolize the entire video game industry by the time next gen starts between acquisitions and kamikaze policies.  let's see how much a pro-consumer nice guy MS will be once they eliminate the competition..

Yeah I was gonna say, Sony have a lot of goodwill stuff with PS+ collection, BC, free upgrades for new games like Spidey, sackboy and Horizon. Its just hard to compete with MS right now due to their game pass push and everything that comes with it. MS want smooth transitions for people to keep subbing and access to all their games. They have lots of "free" upgrades because those games are on game pass for the new consoles and they want them to work good. They are allowing the old controller to work on new gen mainly because they haven't innovated their controller much and its not a priority for them to push new controller features. Outside of that its just the value of game pass itself and that's somewhat subjective.

Sony are just doing their own thing and not countering MS. The problem is they are doing it badly. PR and communication has been dire this year, I am wondering what on earth has happened at Sony to cause this. If they had much better pushes towards focusing on their positive stuff and keeping a steady stream of positive info rather than this radio silence it would feel a lot better. The price rise is the only really bad thing they've done imo and even then I'm okay with a price rise I just wish regional pricing was kinder. The price rise only stings so much in the UK because retailers have sold games for so cheap for so long, games were supposed to be £60 for ages, as they all were on the PS store anyway.

It kind of dawned on me that we just had games like Avengers selling 70% digital in the UK when it was £60 digital and widely available at £45 retail. I guess most people don't really care about prices so much and Sony will very much get away with £70 just fine.

[kitler53]

Yeah I was gonna say, Sony have a lot of goodwill stuff with PS+ collection, BC, free upgrades for new games like Spidey, sackboy and Horizon. Its just hard to compete with MS right now due to their game pass push and everything that comes with it. MS want smooth transitions for people to keep subbing and access to all their games. They have lots of "free" upgrades because those games are on game pass for the new consoles and they want them to work good. They are allowing the old controller to work on new gen mainly because they haven't innovated their controller much and its not a priority for them to push new controller features. Outside of that its just the value of game pass itself and that's somewhat subjective.

Sony are just doing their own thing and not countering MS. The problem is they are doing it badly. PR and communication has been dire this year, I am wondering what on earth has happened at Sony to cause this. If they had much better pushes towards focusing on their positive stuff and keeping a steady stream of positive info rather than this radio silence it would feel a lot better. The price rise is the only really bad thing they've done imo and even then I'm okay with a price rise I just wish regional pricing was kinder. The price rise only stings so much in the UK because retailers have sold games for so cheap for so long, games were supposed to be £60 for ages, as they all were on the PS store anyway.

It kind of dawned on me that we just had games like Avengers selling 70% digital in the UK when it was £60 digital and widely available at £45 retail. I guess most people don't really care about prices so much and Sony will very much get away with £70 just fine.

with respect to the price rise thing i think you need to acknowledge 2 things:

1. it's not just sony.  we are seeing most of the 3rd party developers doing the price rise thing as well.  you want next gen CoD,.. $70.  you want next gen 2k21,.. $70.  

2. ms is selling it like "smart delivery" is for all of the games on their store.  ...or even just most of them.   smart delivery requires the game's publisher to opt-in and so far outside of MS first party participation is low.  it's low for a reason,.. graphical upgrades to games isn't free and the industry as a whole is not healthy enough to absorb those costs as standard practice.

the industry as a whole is reeling at the increasing cost of game development and trying to find ways to make it cost effective.   currently hits have huge profits but duds have massive losses.  and in comes MS,.. they've been clear to the world that gamepass is losing them money right now.   i forget the name but right now MS is doing that dirty business practice where you run a huge loss knowing the competition cannot afford to price match in order to kill the competition so that once the market is free of competition you can charge any price you want.

[Xevross]

with respect to the price rise thing i think you need to acknowledge 2 things:

1. it's not just sony.  we are seeing most of the 3rd party developers doing the price rise thing as well.  you want next gen CoD,.. $70.  you want next gen 2k21,.. $70. 

2. ms is selling it like "smart delivery" is for all of the games on their store.  ...or even just most of them.   smart delivery requires the game's publisher to opt-in and so far outside of MS first party participation is low.  it's low for a reason,.. graphical upgrades to games isn't free and the industry as a whole is not healthy enough to absorb those costs as standard practice.

the industry as a whole is reeling at the increasing cost of game development and trying to find ways to make it cost effective.   currently hits have huge profits but duds have massive losses.  and in comes MS,.. they've been clear to the world that gamepass is losing them money right now.   i forget the name but right now MS is doing that dirty business practice where you run a huge loss knowing the competition cannot afford to price match in order to kill the competition so that once the market is free of competition you can charge any price you want.

Yeah that's why I'm not mad at Sony specifically for the price rise, its just that they've done it and MS haven't and they're the two platform holders. Then again we don't know that MS haven't done it as they have no first party games releasing on next gen any time soon.

I didn't mean smart delivery, that's just the same thing as a free upgrade and every game supporting smart delivery is supporting free upgrade on playstation. I meant microsoft's own games with them upgrading their older games to next gen for free. But I doubt any of the upgrades are as big as Spidey and couldn't be sold as a remaster.

Only Microsoft could be doing game pass right now on the scale they are doing. Pretty much every sub service starts with a loss for years and requires a huge investment to go into black. A lot of sub models still aren't making money like Spotify. Game pass will only work if it rapidly expands its user base and to do that it needs big risky investment which nobody can compete with. Its the nature of the beast. That being said, us consumers don't really care about that side of things, why should I care that its losing money? I'm just enjoying the value it offers right now.

[DerNebel]

with respect to the price rise thing i think you need to acknowledge 2 things:

1. it's not just sony.  we are seeing most of the 3rd party developers doing the price rise thing as well.  you want next gen CoD,.. $70.  you want next gen 2k21,.. $70.  

2. ms is selling it like "smart delivery" is for all of the games on their store.  ...or even just most of them.   smart delivery requires the game's publisher to opt-in and so far outside of MS first party participation is low.  it's low for a reason,.. graphical upgrades to games isn't free and the industry as a whole is not healthy enough to absorb those costs as standard practice.

the industry as a whole is reeling at the increasing cost of game development and trying to find ways to make it cost effective.   currently hits have huge profits but duds have massive losses.  and in comes MS,.. they've been clear to the world that gamepass is losing them money right now.   i forget the name but right now MS is doing that dirty business practice where you run a huge loss knowing the competition cannot afford to price match in order to kill the competition so that once the market is free of competition you can charge any price you want.

Predatory pricing?

[kitler53]

Yeah that's why I'm not mad at Sony specifically for the price rise, its just that they've done it and MS haven't and they're the two platform holders. Then again we don't know that MS haven't done it as they have no first party games releasing on next gen any time soon.

I didn't mean smart delivery, that's just the same thing as a free upgrade and every game supporting smart delivery is supporting free upgrade on playstation. I meant microsoft's own games with them upgrading their older games to next gen for free. But I doubt any of the upgrades are as big as Spidey and couldn't be sold as a remaster.

Only Microsoft could be doing game pass right now on the scale they are doing. Pretty much every sub service starts with a loss for years and requires a huge investment to go into black. A lot of sub models still aren't making money like Spotify. Game pass will only work if it rapidly expands its user base and to do that it needs big risky investment which nobody can compete with. Its the nature of the beast. That being said, us consumers don't really care about that side of things, why should I care that its losing money? I'm just enjoying the value it offers right now.

because a lack of competition means complacency.   

trust me,.. when ms kills or acquires the entire competition there will be no such thing as a true AAA game anymore.  the nature of a subscription service demands regular content and games will become more and more episodic and lower and lower ambition.   Gow, Horizon, TLoU are just not cost effective in a subscription model because it cost hundreds of millions to make and people finish it in 10 - 20 hours.  you'll see more and more games like destiny, halo infinite, fallout 76, sea of thieves, fortnight where it's a GaaS style or games like battletoads, ori, grounded where development costs are tiny.

i put halo infinite in italics because i really think it represents the future you have to look forward to if MS wins.  halo used to be a massive system selling franchise.   this is what you get when the business priorities shift from system seller to subscription seller:

Predatory pricing?

yes yes, that was the phrase i was looking for.

i think ms can get away with it here because it would be incredibly difficult to proof in court because what they are selling isn't 1:1 with what the rest of the industry is selling.  but they are massively devaluing video games right now in a way that will kill the competition.  

[Legend]

18 free ps4 games adds no good will at all?   99% BC with ps4 adds no good will at all?

boy how fast have expectations changed from last gen. previously no games moved forward from gen to gen and suddenly it's not even good enough to have full BC with your last gen games library,.. you're games library needs to be actively updated every gen to leverage the new hardware for free.

i'm getting really worried about ps5 at this point.  seems as if anything less than free ps studio games for life and sony is a bad guy.  MS is clearly going to monopolize the entire video game industry by the time next gen starts between acquisitions and kamikaze policies.  let's see how much a pro-consumer nice guy MS will be once they eliminate the competition..

It's a give a mouse a cookie situation.

Without bc, all the crossbuy games on ps4 were nice and other ports were just regular ports.

With bc and ps4 pro though, players expect games to run on newer hardware and look better for free. No one paid for ps4 pro patches, so why would they pay for ps5 patches?

I think the big problem is just that next gen games look a lot like current gen games atm. PS5 feels like a ps4 pro pro at this point because so little of next gen has been shown. Come nov with head to head face offs, that could change.