Re-imaginings and poor game development

[darkknightkryta]

So I started RE 3 remake this morning.  I'll spare details of what I think of the game (Plays well, but with issues).  What I do want to talk about are these re-imaginings that we've been getting.  Namely RE3 and FF 7.  I won't talk about RE2 since I don't plan to play the remake until I finish the original.  But the previous two.  WTF?  

I'll try to stay as spoiler free as possible.  If you want no knowledge of RE3 just close the thread and come back later.  FF 7 isn't out yet, but the knowledge of that it's only a remake of roughly 4 hours of the original game is indeed out in the open.  RE3, is almost completely different from the original game. In the 5 years it took them to not remake Final Fantasy 7, they could easily have remade Final Fantasy 7.  But instead they decided to pad things out and change the story.  For RE3;  I've been reading things and stuff is missing.  

Spoiler for Hidden:

clock tower is missing.

Now I didn't think to believe that spoiler was true, because it's a pretty big part of the game, but considering what I saw at the beginning, it is indeed gone.  I've also noticed something else might be missing from the game

Spoiler for Hidden:

Racoon Police Department is gone from the looks of things.

And for what?  Added stuff no body asked for? I never actually played through the original RE or the Remake, but imagine them taking out the Jill Sandwich part, or hell, imagine getting rid of the lab under the mansion and instead everything taking place above ground.  That's essentially what they did with RE3.  What's worse; is what is there is completely different.  They didn't model Racoon City with what was in the original game.  They completely added in new areas while discarding the old.  Would it have been too hard to just remodel the backgrounds from RE3?  It's not like they took out the gameplay sections, they just made a new city instead.  Well they did take out gameplay sections.  I feel if they just stuck to the original game, model the environments in 3D with minor changes, they could have kept the original game intact.  I feel the same will be true with FF 7.  Especially since that game has been in development hell for 5 years.   I mean, if they added extra stuff without having to remove large chunks of the game, in FF 7's case; having to be split over multiple titles, I wouldn't have minded.  

This is an overarching issue I've been having with game development.  We're 20 years into 3D development, and I feel they got the workflow right back in the PSX/Saturn/N64 era.  No one was re-inventing the wheel in the gameplay department.  Were there innovations?  Yes there were, but most devs stuck to a basic framework that seems to be missing today.  All Resident Evil, Silent Hill games, and most action 3D games at the time (Threads of Fate, Dino Crisis, Metal Gear, etc), all have the same basic structure.  They never went about trying to re-invent the wheel, instead they put wheels on the car and sent it driving.   I think this is killing current game development.  Square released 3 final Fantasy games within 3 years of each other.  Plus having a high out put of other games; Mana, Musashi, Parasite Eve, etc, when they were developing for PSX.  Now they can't even release a remake of 4 hours of previous game within 5 years.  Yes, I know games have gotten more complex, but these complexities can be traced back a decade ago.  Gran Theft Auto 3 introduced this open world stuff that's plaguing games  today.  But Gran Theft Auto 3, plays like its 2D counterpart, but in 3D, and came out a while ago.  There's lots of tools that speed up the development with this regard to sandboxing.  The quest system we have in place for RPGs today have been in place with PC games over a decade ago. (MMOs, Thief, Morrowind, etc).  Last big innovation was the over the shoulder shooting in RE 4.

Yes, I get it, art has become so much more detailed, but gameplay hasn't.  There's this disconnect between good gameplay today vs back then.  I think the current re-imagining (Not even going to call them remakes, cause they're not) are just exasperating issues with current game development.  TLDR; devs are spending more time trying to make games instead of just making games.  With tools that we have today, dev time shouldn't need to be that much more than before (Most early 3D games had their engines made from scratch for each game, for instance).

[DerNebel]

What level of experience do you have with game development?

[darkknightkryta]

What level of experience do you have with game development?

Game development?  Just some hobby stuff.  Actual development?  Was an app developer for a few years.  And yourself?

[DerNebel]

Game development?  Just some hobby stuff.  Actual development?  Was an app developer for a few years.  And yourself?

So pretty much none. Cool, how about you stick with app development then instead of trying to analyse and criticise a development situation that you have no insight into.

And no I have barely any development insight, however I'm also not sitting in my armchair telling game developers what they are doing wrong during their development process.

[Legend]

TLDR; devs are spending more time trying to make games instead of just making games.

What do you mean by that?

Modern gamers have very specific expectations from AAA games and while something like COD still has lots of challenges during development, is that not "just making games?"



Is your point more in line with these videos?

So pretty much none. Cool, how about you stick with app development then instead of trying to analyse and criticise a development situation that you have no insight into.

And no I have barely any development insight, however I'm also not sitting in my armchair telling game developers what they are doing wrong during their development process.

It's fine to criticize games and game development as an outsider. I don't think dark is being too extreme with how he's presenting his opinions.

Sure almost all backseat development advice is wrong, even when it comes from other devs, but it can still be an interesting discussion imo.

[kitler53]

i agree and disagree.

but in general i do think game development needs some innovated thinking in how to expedite the process.   creating asset library shared across development teams or maybe procedural asset generation.   i don't really have a solution but something needs to improve.  i don't want to sacrifice the shiny graphics and animations i've become accustom to but at the same time game development take waaaaay to long.

[darkknightkryta]

What do you mean by that?

Modern gamers have very specific expectations from AAA games and while something like COD still has lots of challenges during development, is that not "just making games?"



Is your point more in line with these videos?

It's fine to criticize games and game development as an outsider. I don't think dark is being too extreme with how he's presenting his opinions.

Sure almost all backseat development advice is wrong, even when it comes from other devs, but it can still be an interesting discussion imo.

I find games lack focus nowadays.  I don't know if it's an issue of trying to put too many genres into one game, or something else.  I feel there's no blueprint anymore.  It's like they keep trying to add all these things in, but forget the core of the game.  

Playing RE3 remake more, not only did they cut stuff out of the game, what they put in was never in the game n the first place.  They had time to add all ths stuff that wasn't in the original, yet they forgot to actually put the original game in the game.  Like could you imagine if the RE2 remake took place in Wesker's mansion instead of the Police Department?  That's essentially what they did with RE 3.