Nintendomed? Discuss why on the next episode of Nintendo Ball Z

[Raven]

A success in the eyes of the gamers who see that 50 million people have one and that it's the only handheld in today's mobile market that isn't dead. 50 million people and still climbing means Nintendo still has a lot of mindshare. Today's financial losses can help tomorrow's financial success if those financial losses allowed for tons of people to be playing your games. It's not so black and white. Sony lost a shame load of money on PlayStation 3 and it didn't even come close to PlayStation 2 sales but I don't know anyone who honestly believes it to be a flop. Especially considering that a lot of what Sony did in the backhalf of the console's generation recharged confidence in the name.

[darkknightkryta]

Didn't wanna derail the NDP thread any further.  Gonna move this to the community whenever I figure it out... or whenever @Legend moves it for me ;o

[Mmm_fish_tacos]

When was the last time Nintendo wasn't doomed?

[darkknightkryta]

A success in the eyes of the gamers who see that 50 million people have one and that it's the only handheld in today's mobile market that isn't dead. 50 million people and still climbing means Nintendo still has a lot of mindshare. Today's financial losses can help tomorrow's financial success if those financial losses allowed for tons of people to be playing your games. It's not so black and white. Sony lost a shame load of money on PlayStation 3 and it didn't even come close to PlayStation 2 sales but I don't know anyone who honestly believes it to be a flop. Especially considering that a lot of what Sony did in the backhalf of the console's generation recharged confidence in the name.

But that's the thing Raven, the bulk of the 3DS' sales in the beginning of its life, back when the market wasn't as uncertain.  I mean, it's selling almost as poorly as the Vita is currently.  That's not very encouraging for growth or anything.  I personally believe the PS3 is a flop, but as you mention Sony did a lot of ground work for the PS4 with the PS3.  What's Nintendo doing?  They're online is still stuck 7 years ago, they're milking their fanbase for all their worth, and they've done nothing but rehash the same shame for the past 5 years.  I mean, the "3D" Mario on the Wii U is a sequel to a fudgy handheld game.  Sony invested heavily into new IPs last gen and it looks like they're investing in new IPs this gen.  What's Nintendo investing in?  Toys to sell to the same 2 million people who'd buy cardboard with Nintendo on it (Sorry for the Patcher pun, but he's not wrong here).  I mean, as I mentioned, look at the new 3DS.  It's nothing but a slap in the face, what with a new platform coming out soon.  I mean this is exactly what Sega did, and is the direct cause of their near bankruptcy.  Can Nintendo turn things around?  If it wasn't run by monkeys they could.  They're going to make a new device that solely caters to their fanbase.  What happens when that fanbase leaves?  Look at the Wii U, there's a very good chance that fanbase already left.  Sony kept on building, clawing away to get their fans back.  They kept on pushing and pushing to get the newer generation that only plays Call of Duty and Minecraft, or anything with a gun in first person.  Nintendo's doing nothing of the sort.  I'll even give you a little anectdote.  My little cousin used to come over all the time when I got my Wii U.  Kept on hacking away at Zelda and punching people out in the Wii Sports boxing mini game.  Then he stopped coming.  Then he got a PS2.  Then he got a 360 with Call of Duty.  When Skyward Sword came out, I showed him, you know what he said "It's ugly".  He was 8 years old back then.  He had a DS, does't care to get a 3DS.  What does he do?  Play on his ipod when he's not playing PS4.  This is unfortunately what today's generation of gamers are, and Sony's been doing what they can to appease them and the older generation.  Nintendo's just appeasing to the same people who will buy their crud anyways and it's making them lose money.

[Legend]

Moved to correct area.

[Cute Pikachu]

But that's the thing Raven, the bulk of the 3DS' sales in the beginning of its life, back when the market wasn't as uncertain.  I mean, it's selling almost as poorly as the Vita is currently.  That's not very encouraging for growth or anything.  I personally believe the PS3 is a flop, but as you mention Sony did a lot of ground work for the PS4 with the PS3.  What's Nintendo doing?  They're online is still stuck 7 years ago, they're milking their fanbase for all their worth, and they've done nothing but rehash the same shame for the past 5 years.  I mean, the "3D" Mario on the Wii U is a sequel to a fudgy handheld game.  Sony invested heavily into new IPs last gen and it looks like they're investing in new IPs this gen.  What's Nintendo investing in?  Toys to sell to the same 2 million people who'd buy cardboard with Nintendo on it (Sorry for the Patcher pun, but he's not wrong here).  I mean, as I mentioned, look at the new 3DS.  It's nothing but a slap in the face, what with a new platform coming out soon.  I mean this is exactly what Sega did, and is the direct cause of their near bankruptcy.  Can Nintendo turn things around?  If it wasn't run by monkeys they could.  They're going to make a new device that solely caters to their fanbase.  What happens when that fanbase leaves?  Look at the Wii U, there's a very good chance that fanbase already left.  Sony kept on building, clawing away to get their fans back.  They kept on pushing and pushing to get the newer generation that only plays Call of Duty and Minecraft, or anything with a gun in first person.  Nintendo's doing nothing of the sort.  I'll even give you a little anectdote.  My little cousin used to come over all the time when I got my Wii U.  Kept on hacking away at Zelda and punching people out in the Wii Sports boxing mini game.  Then he stopped coming.  Then he got a PS2.  Then he got a 360 with Call of Duty.  When Skyward Sword came out, I showed him, you know what he said "It's ugly".  He was 8 years old back then.  He had a DS, does't care to get a 3DS.  What does he do?  Play on his ipod when he's not playing PS4.  This is unfortunately what today's generation of gamers are, and Sony's been doing what they can to appease them and the older generation. Nintendo's just appeasing to the same people who will buy their crud anyways and it's making them lose money.

@bold Your saying 3d world, smash u, bayonetta 2, and pikmin 3 are crud I mean ps4 and xbox one have some good games like fc4, infamous, horizon 2, dragon age but wii u is doing better in the exclusive apartment in the same time frame(itll probably continue having the best exclusives until the fall when sony and microsoft unleash hell)?

[Raven]

But that's the thing Raven, the bulk of the 3DS' sales in the beginning of its life, back when the market wasn't as uncertain.  I mean, it's selling almost as poorly as the Vita is currently.  That's not very encouraging for growth or anything.  I personally believe the PS3 is a flop, but as you mention Sony did a lot of ground work for the PS4 with the PS3.  What's Nintendo doing?  They're online is still stuck 7 years ago, they're milking their fanbase for all their worth, and they've done nothing but rehash the same shame for the past 5 years.  I mean, the "3D" Mario on the Wii U is a sequel to a fudgy handheld game.  Sony invested heavily into new IPs last gen and it looks like they're investing in new IPs this gen.  What's Nintendo investing in?  Toys to sell to the same 2 million people who'd buy cardboard with Nintendo on it (Sorry for the Patcher pun, but he's not wrong here).  I mean, as I mentioned, look at the new 3DS.  It's nothing but a slap in the face, what with a new platform coming out soon.  I mean this is exactly what Sega did, and is the direct cause of their near bankruptcy.  Can Nintendo turn things around?  If it wasn't run by monkeys they could.  They're going to make a new device that solely caters to their fanbase.  What happens when that fanbase leaves?  Look at the Wii U, there's a very good chance that fanbase already left.  Sony kept on building, clawing away to get their fans back.  They kept on pushing and pushing to get the newer generation that only plays Call of Duty and Minecraft, or anything with a gun in first person.  Nintendo's doing nothing of the sort.  I'll even give you a little anectdote.  My little cousin used to come over all the time when I got my Wii U.  Kept on hacking away at Zelda and punching people out in the Wii Sports boxing mini game.  Then he stopped coming.  Then he got a PS2.  Then he got a 360 with Call of Duty.  When Skyward Sword came out, I showed him, you know what he said "It's ugly".  He was 8 years old back then.  He had a DS, does't care to get a 3DS.  What does he do?  Play on his ipod when he's not playing PS4.  This is unfortunately what today's generation of gamers are, and Sony's been doing what they can to appease them and the older generation.  Nintendo's just appeasing to the same people who will buy their crud anyways and it's making them lose money.

I'm not arguing the actual facts surrounding Nintendo's current state, what they've done so far to help themselves (which is very little from what we can see), nor the direction they appear to be going. I guess what I'm saying is that I have already once before thought like you and had Nintendo cockslap me in the face. I thought the very same thing about Nintendo's status right before the Wii came out. I was certain it was their last console. That it would fail. That they had made too many mistakes and that the Wii was one of them. Years later I was still choking on my words. Whether I liked it or not and despite whatever excuses I may have wanted to make Nintendo made a 100 million selling console. They made money off of it. The DS was a roaring success and the 3DS, while not as successful, still sold plenty. Much more than I thought it would. Again, whether I liked it or not the 3DS proved me wrong. Regardless of when it sold the bulk of its units. What the Wii and 3DS show is that Nintendo can still pull things off and those 50 million 3DS units sold will keep the name relevant for a little while longer. Long enough for Nintendo to possibly pull something out of its dog. I get it. You don't like Nintendo. You don't like what they've been doing and you're so sure of yourself that they're going down in flames. That's fine but you're not going to convince me to believe that Nintendo won't be able to pull anything off and bounce back, if even just for one more console, because I'm hearing the same sentiment coming from you that I had right before the Wii happened.

[Cute Pikachu]

yeah for all we know nintendo has the money to make a console 3 times more powerful then the ps5 or xbox two since they have 9 billion towards video games
Nintendo has been making some dumb mistakes like the youtube debacle, new 3ds, wii u, etc.
But what about the good things like having a good e3 digital event, treehouse, being the only company that gives us an estimate of hardware numbers in the US for each month even if they are shame, the Game Awards, Sponsoring EVO, Saving Bayonetta 2 and Devil's Third
Nintendo hasnt just been doing dumb things this gen in fact they have done some pretty good things like bringing back long awaited returns of pikmin and starfox.

[darkknightkryta]

@bold Your saying 3d world, smash u, bayonetta 2, and pikmin 3 are crud I mean ps4 and xbox one have some good games like fc4, infamous, horizon 2, dragon age but wii u is doing better in the exclusive apartment in the same time frame(itll probably continue having the best exclusives until the fall when sony and microsoft unleash hell)?

I never said any of that ;o.  I said they've been rehashing the same thing for the past 5 years.  New Super Mario U, New Super Mario 2, Mario 3D Land 2, Smash Bros. 20 (Joking on the 20).  Bayonetta does't belong to Nintendo, it belongs to Sega and I found the second a bit sloppy compared to the first. For your other point I didn't quote, everything Nintendo does is directly for their "fans".  They've done nothing to get new fans in.  Hell compare the PS4 and Wii U's library.  Nintendo managed to release sequels to all their titles, yet how many new IPs have they released?  I mean, I'm not saying they haven't, but reskinning Mario 3D Land into Captain Toad isn't exactly a new IP.  On the PS4 Sony released 2 sequels the first year and are going to launch 2 new IPs this year, while working with third parties to attract people missing in between.  Nintendo released games only for Nintendo fans and tried to branch out by resurrecting cancelled titles that have niche fanbases.  And the only reason why they did was because its cheap.  If you look at the Wii U, and I'll make the bold prediction that their next handheld is going to sell terribly, Nintendo's fanbase is dwindling.

@Raven
It's possible Nintendo can pull something out of their dog, but the current Nintendo is incapable.  I firmly believe the Wii U and DS' success is directly because of Yamaouchi's leg work.  I mean, Nintendo is just so out of touch of reality.  Iwata ordered 9 million Wii Us ordered in a quarter.  His reasoning?  Either he honestly believed Mario 3D Land was gonna push 9 million consoles or he is just that out of touch with the market.  It's this mentality with Nintendo that's worrying.

[Raven]

@Raven
It's possible Nintendo can pull something out of their dog, but the current Nintendo is incapable.  I firmly believe the Wii U and DS' success is directly because of Yamaouchi's leg work.  I mean, Nintendo is just so out of touch of reality.  Iwata ordered 9 million Wii Us ordered in a quarter.  His reasoning?  Either he honestly believed Mario 3D Land was gonna push 9 million consoles or he is just that out of touch with the market.  It's this mentality with Nintendo that's worrying.

Oh I agree with you. Completely. Nintendo has made overall idiotic moves with the Wii U and what they've been doing with the 3DS is headscratching to the say the least. They refuse to acknowledge that the market in general is no longer friendly to their style of games and hasn't been for some time. At least, not friendly enough to warrant them producing almost nothing but family friendly titles. They don't want to see reality in that the Wii succeeded not because of the core console gamer audience but because of the casual crowd that now gets its kicks playing Farmville and Minecraft on mobile devices. The 3DS is really feeling the pinch now because of that same fact.

[Cute Pikachu]

I never said any of that ;o.  I said they've been rehashing the same thing for the past 5 years.  New Super Mario U, New Super Mario 2, Mario 3D Land 2, Smash Bros. 20 (Joking on the 20).  Bayonetta does't belong to Nintendo, it belongs to Sega and I found the second a bit sloppy compared to the first. For your other point I didn't quote, everything Nintendo does is directly for their "fans".  They've done nothing to get new fans in.  heck compare the PS4 and Wii U's library.  Nintendo managed to release sequels to all their titles, yet how many new IPs have they released?  I mean, I'm not saying they haven't, but reskinning Mario 3D Land into Captain Toad isn't exactly a new IP.  On the PS4 Sony released 2 sequels the first year and are going to launch 2 new IPs this year, while working with third parties to attract people missing in between.  Nintendo released games only for Nintendo fans and tried to branch out by resurrecting cancelled titles that have niche fanbases.  And the only reason why they did was because its cheap.  If you look at the Wii U, and I'll make the bold prediction that their next handheld is going to sell terribly, Nintendo's fanbase is dwindling.

Nintendo is launching a new ip this year called Splatoon and they formed the Nintendo Garage for new ips.
I understand you dont like Nintendo and you think they rehash things I agree but everyone does that like sony ,microsoft ,ea ,activision ,and ubisoft.
I am pretty sure Bayonetta 2 and Devil's Third is a "Nintendo type game"
Pikmin isnt that niche since every entry has been a million seller
now star fox is probably niche but  it hasnt had time to evolve sicne Nintendo doesn't make poorly selling ips for many years until they need a new game(stupid but true).
Ill just conclude that I agree with you somewhat but some of the things the other companies do as well.

[Dr. Pezus]

@bold Your saying 3d world, smash u, bayonetta 2, and pikmin 3 are crud I mean ps4 and xbox one have some good games like fc4, infamous, horizon 2, dragon age but wii u is doing better in the exclusive apartment in the same time frame(itll probably continue having the best exclusives until the fall when sony and microsoft unleash hell)?

Only 3D World and Pikmin out of those came out in WiiU's first year. The only reason it has more notable ones right now is because it has been out for double the amount of time

[Legend]

Only 3D World and Pikmin out of those came out in WiiU's first year. The only reason it has more notable ones right now is because it has been out for double the amount of time

Wii U first year:

Zombiu
Nintendoland
New Super Mario U
Pikmin 3
The wonderful 101
Super Mario 3D World
Wind Waker HD



I'd say comparable to ps4 and xbo.

[Dr. Pezus]

Wii U first year:

Zombiu
Nintendoland
New Super Mario U
Pikmin 3
The wonderful 101
Super Mario 3D World
Wind Waker HD

I'd say comparable to ps4 and xbo.

Only real standout is 3D World imo with the others being filler. Comparable to PS4/XB1

[Legend]

... Nintendo managed to release sequels to all their titles, yet how many new IPs have they released?  I mean, I'm not saying they haven't, but reskinning Mario 3D Land into Captain Toad isn't exactly a new IP...

Buahahaha no. Captain Toad is a new IP. It actually started out as its own separate game, and then was merged with Super Mario 3D World to give SM3DW the little extra content it needed. The stand alone game is the result of all their Captain Toad work that didn't get transitioned into 3D World.




I think Nintendo will announce the New Wii U at e3 this year. It'll hopefully have a different name than that, but still be a similar thing to the new 3DS.

New Wii U drops the gamepad to an optional peripheral. New Wii U is slightly stronger than PS4. New Wii U costs $299. Most games from this point forward are still just Wii U games and work on both systems. However 3rd party ports and some first party games are New Wii U exclusives, taking use of the advanced power and features of the device.



I think that'd be their best option for consoles. They'd be able to effectively start their new generation only three years after Wii U, but Wii U owners wouldn't feel betrayed.