Where did Sony start going right?

Started by the-pi-guy, Jan 10, 2021, 03:46 PM

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the-pi-guy

Jan 10, 2021, 03:46 PM Last Edit: Jan 10, 2021, 05:21 PM by the-pi-guy
Top 15 PS2, PS3, PS4 games by sales for SIE/SCE as a publisher.  Will note that these are from Wikipedia, so they are likely incomplete or inaccurate.  But still, regardless of source, you will generally find these games. 

PS2
Gran Turismo 314.89
Gran Turismo 411.76
God of War4.61
God of War 24.24
Jak and Daxter4.2
Eye Toy Play4
Ratchet and Clank3.71
Ratchet & Clank: Up Your Arsenal3.218
The Getaway3
Ratchet & Clank: Going Commando2.966
Socom US Navy Seals2.78
Socom II2.171
Everybody's Golf 32.17
Ratchet Deadlocked2.169
ATV Off-road Fury1.99



PS3:
Gran Turismo 511.5
The Last of Us7
Uncharted 36.6
Uncharted 26.5
Gran Turismo 5 Prologue5.35
God of War 35.2
Gran Turismo 65.06
Uncharted 14.8
Motorstorm3.31
Heavy Rain3.03
LittleBigPlanet3
Beyond Two Souls2.8
Resistance2.5
God of War Collection2.42
Killzone 22



PS4:
Spiderman20
Uncharted 416
God of War12
Horizon Zero Dawn10
The Last of Us: Remastered10
Gran Turismo Sport8
Infamous Second Son6
Ghost of Tsushima5
The Last of Us 24
Detroit Become Human3.2
Killzone ShadowFall2.1
Bloodborne2
Driveclub2
Knack2
Nioh 1

These lists come with some caveats:
1.) They're not all from good sources.
2.) PS4 titles are still selling.
3.) A lot of these numbers are incomplete.
4.) A lot of the PS4 numbers are especially outdated. Bloodborne hit 2 million in 2015. Days Gone is notably missing from the list despite being a major title in 2019.

But still there is accurate enough information to paint the picture that SIE has exploded. 

Sony has gone from 1 5+ million franchise, to at least 5 10+ million franchises.  And the number could very well end up with 8 (Gran Turismo Sport, Ghost of Tsushima, possibly Days Gone). 

They've gone from selling their consoles primarily on third party exclusives, to their first party titles being a major force on the platform. 


So what has Sony done right? 

I would hypothesize it really started with 2009 with Uncharted 2.  I think it really set the precedent for SCE/SIE.  Naughty Dog followed it up with Uncharted 3 and The Last of Us.  GG stepped it up with Horizon.  SMS stepped up God of War. 

the-pi-guy

I feel like SIE has really changed.
During the PS2 era, you got a PS2 for GTA or Final Fantasy. During the PS4 era, it feels you get a PS4 to play The Last of Us or God of War. 
 It feels like they've kind of moved towards being like Nintendo. Where you buy a Nintendo for Nintendo's games.  In terms of critical reception, they've kind of started trading blows with Nintendo.

kitler53

mark cerny.  kaz harai.  shuhei yoshida.  neil drunkmann.

their technology, business, and development leadership changed playstation's fortunes for the better.   with mark and neil still in power i think ps5 is still going to do well but with kaz gone and shuhei in a more minor role i think we all know where some of the more recent business blunders are to be blamed.  things like raising the prices to $70 after reporting record profits.  
          

BananaKing

Herman Hulst deserves huge credit. He organised guerrilla into a power house. KZ2 and KZ3 were profitable and high quality exclusives that helped repair the PS3s image and PSs exlcusive lineup.

KZ shadowfall was a big part of PS4s success (relatively speaking). It was essential for its marketing. The moment KZ was shown next gen kicked off.

And the  we got Horizon. It was the game that showed Sony IP outside if ND games can do blockbuster hits. Horizon is twice as big as any GoW game before the 2018 one. Let that sink in. It showed Sony that their first party IP can be mega successful if they push them enough.

And now Horizon 2 is the most anticipated PS5 game, and again it was a GG that was the graphical showcase for PS5.

The guy has done wonders for GG and brought them up to a prestigious studio. They are still growing, and they arent at the level of ND or rockstar yet. But they can reach there IMO if they keep pushing it.

Legend

mark cerny.  kaz harai.  shuhei yoshida.  neil drunkmann.

their technology, business, and development leadership changed playstation's fortunes for the better.   with mark and neil still in power i think ps5 is still going to do well but with kaz gone and shuhei in a more minor role i think we all know where some of the more recent business blunders are to be blamed.  things like raising the prices to $70 after reporting record profits.  
Herman Hulst deserves huge credit. He organised guerrilla into a power house. KZ2 and KZ3 were profitable and high quality exclusives that helped repair the PS3s image and PSs exlcusive lineup.

KZ shadowfall was a big part of PS4s success (relatively speaking). It was essential for its marketing. The moment KZ was shown next gen kicked off.

And the  we got Horizon. It was the game that showed Sony IP outside if ND games can do blockbuster hits. Horizon is twice as big as any GoW game before the 2018 one. Let that sink in. It showed Sony that their first party IP can be mega successful if they push them enough.

And now Horizon 2 is the most anticipated PS5 game, and again it was a GG that was the graphical showcase for PS5.

The guy has done wonders for GG and brought them up to a prestigious studio. They are still growing, and they arent at the level of ND or rockstar yet. But they can reach there IMO if they keep pushing it.
I agree with both posts. With Hulst being in charge of PlayStation Studios, will that offset the departures?

I also think PS4 was a rising tide. Uncharted 3 for example was a huge release for Sony. They advertised it everywhere and it went head to head with Skyrim's release just 10 days later. The difference between it and Uncharted 4 is relatively small yet the difference in sales is huge.

Xevross

Jan 10, 2021, 08:43 PM Last Edit: Jan 10, 2021, 08:45 PM by Xevross
I think its more of a trend we saw across gaming, there's much fewer releases but the games we do get are bigger and bigger. Sony saw an increase in sales per game that was probably above average, and I think that's maily due to being the only ones in the market delivering these huge budget story focused games. And with every release Sony's reputation for them grew and grew.

It didn't happen before because Sony went for variety rather than mainly focusing on one style of game, and instead of building a reputation for one thing they had no reputation for anything, any success was an isolated case due to one strong brand (GT) or studio (ND). The #1 thing Sony did this gen was get more public and promote themselves, the rapid rise of streaming and events like E3 shows helped a lot with that, and now Sony games feel like one brand. Yes, devs like ND still stand out but now people expect that kind of quality from everything Sony does. This isn't really a unique thing to Sony though, the same is happening with other publishers.

The PS studios branding now will only amplify this, and allows them to expand into more genres again, as they can slap that PS studios seal of approval on the game and people will know.

All this being said, I don't think Sony really have done much. Mostly I'm arguing its just the way the industry is going. In fact, compared to the sales growth that Nintendo franchises are seeing on the Switch, PS4 isn't even that impressive. Anyway, if you look at it case by case:

-ND are just continuing to grow with each game and they've now pretty much reached a peak.

-GT is still huge, if anything it declined.

-God of War was again just a gradual rise in the franchise, Ascension was a massive debut for Sony, but GOW 2018 became a record setter due to being an incredible game and having crazy good WOM.

-Spider-Man was a big budget Spider-Man game and came out at the peak of Sony's advertising pull, this combined to a huge opening and then it was an amazing game so great legs. This phenomenon could have happened with or without Sony's growth though and with or without Sony as the publisher, Spidey is Spidey.

-Guerrilla is the one true crazy success story I would say, and the last couple posts here covered it well. They are the one studio that had a massive jump in sales and quality.

-The rest all just saw the average growth you might expect due to the industry and Sony's bigger presence and ability to hype games with the rise of streaming and YT.

the-pi-guy

I think its more of a trend we saw across gaming, there's much fewer releases but the games we do get are bigger and bigger. Sony saw an increase in sales per game that was probably above average, and I think that's maily due to being the only ones in the market delivering these huge budget story focused games. And with every release Sony's reputation for them grew and grew.
I agree and disagree on Nintendo.  


I don't think sales have changed drastically compared to the Wii, but that is with the caveat that the Switch is still an active platform. Wii had 3 games over 30 million (excluding Wii Sports) and another game not too far behind.

Xevross

Jan 11, 2021, 12:43 AM Last Edit: Jan 11, 2021, 12:49 AM by Xevross
I agree and disagree on Nintendo. 


I don't think sales have changed drastically compared to the Wii, but that is with the caveat that the Switch is still an active platform. Wii had 3 games over 30 million (excluding Wii Sports) and another game not too far behind.
Wii:

Wii Sports 82m (free bundle with most Wiis)
Mario Kart Wii 37m
Wii Sports Resort 33m
NSMB Wii 30m
Wii Play 28m
Wii Fit 23m
Wii Fit Plus 21m
SSB Brawl 13m
SMG 13m
Wii Party 9m

That's the top 10 for the wii, dominated by one-off "Wii" games. Sales of their franchise games outside of MK Wii and NSMB Wii aren't crazy. Now the Switch top 10:

1. MK8D 29m
2. ACNH 26m
3. SSBU 21m
4. BOTW 20m
5. Pokemon SS 19m
6. SMO 19m
7. Pokemon LGPE 12m
8. Super Mario Party 12m
9. Splatoon 2 11m
10. NSMBU Deluxe 8m

No games above 30m yet, but probably will have two after the next financial report and may well hit 6 20m+ games already. A lot more proper games here, but we're talking about franchise growth. Let's compare Wii to Switch, with the obvious caveat that most of these Switch games are still selling a lot and Switch is only half way through its life and will add a lot of games:

3D Zelda: Wii: Twilight Princess 7.5m, Skyward Sword 3.7m. Switch: Breath of the Wild 19.7m.

3D Mario: Wii: Galaxy 12.8m, Galaxy 2 7.4m. Switch: Odyssey 19.0m

Smash: Wii: Brawl 13.3m. Switch: Ultimate 21.1m

Mario Party: Wii: MP8 8.9m. Switch: SMP 12.1m

Animal Crossing: Wii: City Folk 4.3m. Switch: New Horizons 26.0m (3DS AC was 12.8m for a better comparison)

Mario Kart: Wii 37.3m. Switch: MK8D 29.0m

And I could go on, there's lots of examples. Mario Kart is the only one without a huge uptick, but it will still outsell MKWii by the end, and Wii was the big peak for Nintendo before this. Other franchises have seen massive growth, like Luigi's Mansion (7.8m vs 5.4m from the last game), Pokemon (Sword and Shield are the best selling since GB era), Splatoon is new and huge, Fire Emblem Switch quickly became the biggest FE game, Hyrule Warrios AOC became the biggest warriors game ever the day it launched.

Compared to Wii, Switch games are selling with as big of a jump as PS3 to PS4, compared to WiiU/3DS and Nintendo's average consoles, Switch is in another league. The only thing Switch is missing is a new 2D mario and maybe one more big selling new IP to compare to PS4's new IP success.

So yeah, Sony have done well but I don't think this is just a Sony thing.

the-pi-guy

I know.  ;D I was looking at the charts.  

I wasn't really talking about franchise growth. It's more about brand strength. Sony pulled out 3 brand new franchises that look like they are going to be huge (Horizon, GoT, Days Gone).  

I don't think it's a universal thing.  It's definitely happened with a portion of the market. GTA is way bigger than ever.  
There is a collection of games that have blown up in the past gen, and there are a number of games that haven't had that spike.  MS for example hasn't seen this kind of brand growth.  
Sony has taken over their best sellers list, MS's best sellers list is probably more dominated by third party than PS2's list is.

Xevross

I know.  ;D I was looking at the charts.  

I wasn't really talking about franchise growth. It's more about brand strength. Sony pulled out 3 brand new franchises that look like they are going to be huge (Horizon, GoT, Days Gone).  

I don't think it's a universal thing.  It's definitely happened with a portion of the market. GTA is way bigger than ever.  
There is a collection of games that have blown up in the past gen, and there are a number of games that haven't had that spike.  MS for example hasn't seen this kind of brand growth.  
Sony has taken over their best sellers list, MS's best sellers list is probably more dominated by third party than PS2's list is.
I get what you mean and in that sense yeah Sony have done well. But I think its just the case of most publishers are like Sony right now with huge games that are setting records, new IPs that launch big etc. and there's a few cases like xbox where they're cocking up. But evern then, stuff like Forza Horizon is huge and bigger than ever for xbox.