Gamescom preshow with Kyle Bosman

[Xevross]

I've got three letters for you..
d.  l.   c.  

Spiderman might be awesome to play but it isn't a full game of development effort.

That's just unequivocally false, but sure you go with that. Miles Morales is a standalone full game.

"Full games" don't have a set length or size, we have some games that are 100+ hours long like Persona 5 and some that are less than 10 hours like the Ori games, Hellblade, Uncharted. Just because a game isn't a numbered sequel and isn't quite as big in scope as a previous game in the series doesn't mean it isn't a full game. Now if Miles uses the same map and same assets again then there definitely a valid argument for a lack of scope of the game, but its still a full game that will have taken this team about two years to make.

I doubt ratchet would be at release. Imagine a studio having to launch TWO games at onconce. That seems impossible. And even worse its at the system launch. I doubt we would get ratchet before the start of april

While it obviously isn't happening, this is certainly not that unfeasible. Insomniac is made up of different studios in different locations, they work somewhat independently of each other. It could well happen at some point that they both have a game ready at the same time.

[kitler53]

"Full games" don't have a set length or size, we have some games that are 100+ hours long like Persona 5 and some that are less than 10 hours like the Ori games, Hellblade, Uncharted. Just because a game isn't a numbered sequel and isn't quite as big in scope as a previous game in the series doesn't mean it isn't a full game. Now if Miles uses the same map and same assets again then there definitely a valid argument for a lack of scope of the game, but its still a full game that will have taken this team about two years to make.

https://www.fanbyte.com/news/insomniac-compares-spider-man-miles-morales-to-uncharted-lost-legacy-in-scope/

In the post, Creative Director Brian Horton specifically referenced Uncharted: Lost Legacy, a spin-off game by Naughty Dog that began development as a DLC for Uncharted 4: A Thief's End, but was made into a standalone game when the scope of the project changed.


Stand alone DLC similar in scope to uncharted lost legacy.  that means a lot short length than a typical game.  that means a lot of recycled assets from the previous game.  that means not making major pushes into new gameplay elements.  

listen,. i loved uncharted lost legacy.  it was way better than uncharted 4.  but to say that uncharted lost legacy had even close to a similar amount of development effort as uncharted 4 is just blatantly false.  there is a reason left behind and lost legacy both launch 1 year after their main games and first light launched in the same year.    these are DLC games.   the bit where they made it playable without buying the main game is a business decision so as to not locked any potential customers from being able to buy the content.

[the-pi-guy]

https://www.fanbyte.com/news/insomniac-compares-spider-man-miles-morales-to-uncharted-lost-legacy-in-scope/

In the post, Creative Director Brian Horton specifically referenced Uncharted: Lost Legacy, a spin-off game by Naughty Dog that began development as a DLC for Uncharted 4: A Thief's End, but was made into a standalone game when the scope of the project changed.


Stand alone DLC similar in scope to uncharted lost legacy.  that means a lot short length than a typical game.  that means a lot of recycled assets from the previous game.  that means not making major pushes into new gameplay elements.  

listen,. i loved uncharted lost legacy.  it was way better than uncharted 4.  but to say that uncharted lost legacy had even close to a similar amount of development effort as uncharted 4 is just blatantly false.  there is a reason left behind and lost legacy both launch 1 year after their main games and first light launched in the same year.    these are DLC games.   the bit where they made it playable without buying the main game is a business decision so as to not locked any potential customers from being able to buy the content.

He's not saying it's the same effort.

Would you say Uncharted 1, 2 or 3 are full games?  Uncharted LL is pretty well with in the same length as those games. If they are full games then it stands to reason that so is LL, even if it's much smaller than Uncharted 4.  

It's a full game, it's just not a AAA title.  It's probably an AA title today.

[Xevross]

https://www.fanbyte.com/news/insomniac-compares-spider-man-miles-morales-to-uncharted-lost-legacy-in-scope/

In the post, Creative Director Brian Horton specifically referenced Uncharted: Lost Legacy, a spin-off game by Naughty Dog that began development as a DLC for Uncharted 4: A Thief's End, but was made into a standalone game when the scope of the project changed.


Stand alone DLC similar in scope to uncharted lost legacy.  that means a lot short length than a typical game.  that means a lot of recycled assets from the previous game.  that means not making major pushes into new gameplay elements. 

listen,. i loved uncharted lost legacy.  it was way better than uncharted 4.  but to say that uncharted lost legacy had even close to a similar amount of development effort as uncharted 4 is just blatantly false.  there is a reason left behind and lost legacy both launch 1 year after their main games and first light launched in the same year.    these are DLC games.   the bit where they made it playable without buying the main game is a business decision so as to not locked any potential customers from being able to buy the content.

Your quote literally proves me right and you wrong, it started as DLC and then became something else. Therefore, this kind of game is not DLC.

DLC - "Downloadable content (DLC) is additional content created for an already released video game, distributed through the Internet by the game's publisher." Lost Legacy was not DLC.

We don't know anywhere near enough about Miles to judge the amount of effort and money that's been put into it. Labelling it DLC, however, is just flat out wrong.

Like Pi said, Uncharted Lost Legacy is actually almost exactly the same length as Uncharted 1 on average and I would say its a much better game even accounting for release year. So I think Lost Legacy is more of a "full game" and a better full experience, even though it came only a year after U4 and and didn't really make any gameplay or graphical improvements over it. Do we say Death Stranding isn't a full game just because they used the Decima engine and din't really do much new with it?

If anything I wish more games did this, we'd get a lot more great games without the need to really push forward the engine and graphics each time. Imagine if everything was like the GTA3 trilogy. But people wrongly labelling these games as DLC and diminishing their value is one of the main reasons we don't get this very often.

[kitler53]

the focus on "game length" is just so irrelevant to the argument though.  the statement i'm arguing against is this one:

I doubt ratchet would be at release. Imagine a studio having to launch TWO games at onconce. That seems impossible. And even worse its at the system launch. I doubt we would get ratchet before the start of april

i don't care if miles morale's campaign takes 100 hours to play though.  it's irrelevant.   the point is insomiac very well could have two launch games ready for ps5 knowing by insomniacs own statement that miles morales is a lower development effort game.   having it launch 1 year after spiderman should be the expectation because like lost legacy did with uncharted the game's development will be focused on building new levels and not building engines and gameplay mechanics.  those will be recycled from the original game instead of making major improvements like we have become accustom to on a more traditional "sequel". 

again, i'm not bashing mile morales.  i'm excited for it.  i think it will be great.  that's not the point.  the point is mile morales being at launch is not a viable argument that ratchet and clank can't be at/near launch also.  i believe we know that insomniac has 2 development teams and the spiderman team having mile morales ready at launch does not prevent the other team from having ratchet ready too.