Epic vs Apple and Google: Who are you rooting for?

[kitler53]

Completely wrong take. 

Epic isn't the one being greedy here.

both are being greedy but apple is the bigger sinner.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.macrumors.com/2020/07/30/apple-3q-2020-earnings/amp/

profit margin was 20%, too high for a company in competition..

[the-pi-guy]

Wow gee Epic looks like you, a multi billion dollar corporation, perhaps shouldn't have risked so much because of your greedy need to get a few million more.

Apple sucks, I really dislike Apple and will never buy a product of theirs, but seriously this is hilarious in how its backfiring for Epic so far. Plus the fact they tried to weaponise kids makes them more vile, so I'm enjoying it.

This hurts indie devs a lot more than it hurts Epic.

Epic knows they can risk it.

[Legend]

I, uh, what. They're both being super greedy, that's the whole point of this. Epic is the one that started this whole thing with trying to circumvent the industry standard 30% cut though, so its all on them.

The 30% cut on mobile has been called out as highway robbery for years. It's not greed to fight that.

Home - Time to Play Fair
Apple faces developer rage over 30% App Store tax - Business Insider

[Xevross]

The 30% cut on mobile has been called out as highway robbery for years. It's not greed to fight that.

Home - Time to Play Fair
Apple faces developer rage over 30% App Store tax - Business Insider

They're not fighting this to be good though, they just want more money. That's all this is about. The 30% cut isn't good for devs and really should go but Epic are in this for purely selfish reasons, and now their actions are hurting other devs using Unreal Engine.

both are being greedy but apple is the bigger sinner.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.macrumors.com/2020/07/30/apple-3q-2020-earnings/amp/

profit margin was 20%, too high for a company in competition..

Yes Apple's profit margins are disgusting honestly, they're just ripping people off. I really don't get how anyone buys an iphone, you're paying more for a worse product with less options. And macs are even worse.

[Legend]

They're not fighting this to be good though, they just want more money. That's all this is about. The 30% cut isn't good for devs and really should go but Epic are in this for purely selfish reasons, and now their actions are hurting other devs using Unreal Engine.

A good act is a good act regardless of one's reasons for doing it. I think this especially applies to corporations since they can almost always be considered just wanting more money.

I'd say Apple's actions are hurting devs using Unreal Engine. Epic started this fight but Apple's going scorched Earth. Also at least from the current understanding, games using Unreal Engine are still allowed. The devs just can't update to newer versions.

[Xevross]

A good act is a good act regardless of one's reasons for doing it. I think this especially applies to corporations since they can almost always be considered just wanting more money.

I'd say Apple's actions are hurting devs using Unreal Engine. Epic started this fight but Apple's going scorched Earth. Also at least from the current understanding, games using Unreal Engine are still allowed. The devs just can't update to newer versions.

Yes but its the reasons for doing it that we're talking about here. Greed, Epic are being greedy and yet you're claiming they aren't. Just because their actions might help others doesn't erase their pure selfish greed here. If Epic hadn't gone full scorched Earth with their breaking of the rules and fast video retaliation trying to weaponise the masses for their own gain, perhaps Apple wouldn't have responded in such a manner.

Apple are hurting some devs on their platform due to the actions of Epic and that's well within their right as shaming as it is. Perhaps those rights should be changed and Apple shouldn't have so much power, but that's what this whole lawsuit is about. Both companies are super shaming and have done super shaming stuff in the last few days and both of their reasons are greed. They're both using and hurting other parties, they're both downright disgusting.

[the-pi-guy]

Apple said that Epic asked for a special deal.

Epic said in the original email, they requested it for everyone.

Apple's statement is misleading. You can read my email in Apple's filing, which is publicly available. I specifically said in Epic's request to the Apple execs, "We hope that Apple will also make these options equally available to all iOS developers..." https://t.co/yRio08fPSy pic.twitter.com/HsqjApFQeo

— Tim Sweeney (@TimSweeneyEpic) August 21, 2020

Little bizarre this is going so public.

[BananaKing]

Im not sure on the details. But from what I understand in 100% with apple and Google.

The app stores are distribution systems developed and maintained by apple and Google. They absolutely have a right to take a cut from whatever transactions happen through their system. If the app wasn't bought or downloaded on the app store then I understand apple/google not getting a cut. But epic saying that they have a right to reach the demographic that apple and Google spent tens if not hundreds of billions developing without paying a cent is ridiculous.

Again I'm not familiar with the details of the case so I might be understanding epic wrong

[the-pi-guy]

Microsoft backs Epic.

Microsoft filed a statement in support of Epic's request to keep access to the Apple SDK for its Unreal Engine | ResetEra

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Im not sure on the details. But from what I understand in 100% with apple and Google.

The app stores are distribution systems developed and maintained by apple and Google. They absolutely have a right to take a cut from whatever transactions happen through their system. If the app wasn't bought or downloaded on the app store then I understand apple/google not getting a cut. But epic saying that they have a right to reach the demographic that apple and Google spent tens if not hundreds of billions developing without paying a cent is ridiculous.

Again I'm not familiar with the details of the case so I might be understanding epic wrong

Epic is mostly pushing for a smaller cut, not no cut.   This  is what they've done with the Epic Store.  They're pushing for closer to 12% rather than 30%.  

It's pretty clear that the outrage from Apple was what Epic was expecting all along.

I'm a little bit more surprised that Google is relenting.  Their app store is much more open. Unlike Apple, you can download apps from third party sources.  

Apples walled garden has some pros and cons.  It takes a lot of freedoms away from the users. But I tended to find that apps tended to work a little bit better on iOS.  Never had any issues.

[the-pi-guy]

Judge rules on Epic TRO: Apple can't block Epic from updating Unreal Engine, but can keep Fortnite off the store News | ResetEra

  Apple Defeats Epic's Effort to Restore Fortnite on App Store  Apple Inc. was spared from having to immediately reinstate Epic Games Inc.'s Fortnite on its App Store, an early court victory for the iPhone maker in an intensifying battle over the tolls charged to app makers.   www.bloomberg.com    

Apple Inc. was spared from having to immediately reinstate Epic Games Inc.'s Fortnite on its App Store, an early court victory for the iPhone maker in an intensifying battle over the tolls charged to app makers.

 But U.S. District Judge Yvonne Gonzalez Rogers's ruling late Monday wasn't a total loss for Epic, as she granted the company's request for a temporary order blocking Apple from limiting the game developer's ability to provide Unreal Engine, key graphics technology, for other apps.  Click to expand... Click to shrink...  

This is just for the temporary restraining order. The issue will still have to go to court.  

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[kitler53]

good for epic.  

not sure if it will keep unreal alive though.  with the lawsuit pending it would be a risk to continue investing in epic if they lose.  i mean, it's only a risk if you have planned to support iOS or Android but lots of games do or at least have spin offs with the same assets.   

[the-pi-guy]

Apple is trying to drag Valve into its ongoing legal battle with Epic Games, and Valve wants nothing to do with it. https://t.co/SNHReOYY9T

— PC Gamer (@pcgamer) February 19, 2021

[kitler53]

Apple is trying to drag Valve into its ongoing legal battle with Epic Games, and Valve wants nothing to do with it. https://t.co/SNHReOYY9T

— PC Gamer (@pcgamer) February 19, 2021

agree with valve here:
1. that's not a narrow ask
2. valve would view this has highly sensitive information
3. valve is not epic
4. why not sony, microsoft, nintendo, google?  those are closed platforms at least and would be more relevant.

i think it would be fair to ask for the "terms and conditions" valve and all the others give to the companies publishing software on their platform as a way to say Apple's policy is "industry standard" but sales data of individual skus has no relavance to this case.

[BananaKing]

Im with apple actually. This whole "robin hood" approach by epic is battleship.

I actually view the 30/70 cut as extremely fair. Google, apple, Sony and MS have each spent DOZENS of BILLIONS of dollars to build, market, expand and support their market places. They have a right to charge 30% of  what they are selling on it. Dont like it? Go somewhere else. Sell it on your own website and store like blizzard is now doing.

[kitler53]

Im with apple actually. This whole "robin hood" approach by epic is battleship.

I actually view the 30/70 cut as extremely fair. Google, apple, Sony and MS have each spent DOZENS of BILLIONS of dollars to build, market, expand and support their market places. They have a right to charge 30% of  what they are selling on it. Dont like it? Go somewhere else. Sell it on your own website and store like blizzard is now doing.

their point is they can't go somewhere else and they can't build their own store front for mobile devices.  PC is an open platform and phones are not.    you're basically saying they should manufacture their own mobile devices if they want to make mobile software...

and i think epic's best point is that developer charges are so uneven.   epic has to give 30% of their revenue and netflix pays 0%.   apple gives the same support to netflix as they do to epic but only epic pays for that support.