Pokemon Sword & Pokemon Shield Announced for Nintendo Switch, Late 2019 Release

[Xevross]

Lazy is such a dumb way to phrase the argument but that doesn't nullify the negative feedback.

Kitler isn't a game developer and certainly doesn't know the complex realities of the situation but his dislike stems from a factual thing the devs have done. The devs/publishers might not care about Kitler's opinions since they may have different priorities. Heck Kitler might have completely unrealistic expectations that would bankrupt GameFreak if tried to achieve them. Nevertheless he's not making up his dislike of the current game.

And that's all fair, but the opinion of someone who openly admits to hating pokemon shouldn't matter when discussing the best direction for the franchise...

[Cute Pikachu]

Not saying the negative feedback isnt warranted. I agree with some of the points brought up involving style and execution. I just think saying a developer is lazy is condescending.

[Xevross]

Not saying the negative feedback isnt warranted. I agree with some of the points brought up involving style and execution. I just think saying a developer is lazy is condescending.

Indeed. And we do all wish that there'd be a bigger leap in graphics and things like camera control, but what if that meant the game taking a year longer or two years? Or their dev cycle had to increase and we got half as many Pokémon games? One of the main reasons I love Pokémon is how often I get to play new games.

Its not just a black and white situation of "why no grafix grr?"

[the-pi-guy]

I don't need to see a three hour demonstration of the game to be able to tell, that it looks absurdly outdated. A franchise, that is able to sell 10 million copies and more every single year revealing it's newest generation with shots like this is a joke.




So what people expect, or at least what I would expect, is a game that minimum looks like a game that has access to the kind of budget that Pokemon should have access to instead of looking worse than some mid-budget PS3 games like the original Ni No Kuni.

But then you have people making excuses like "this is Gamefreak's first mainline Pokemon game on an HD system", like Gamefreak isn't in the position to get help for such a project or like they maybe could not insist on releasing these games every freaking year now. No, no people really shouldn't expect what has to be one of the richest devs in the world, to go and make games that look like they actually release on current day hardware, that's just ridiculous.  

That's fair criticism.  

The graphic quality just isn't something I care that much about.

[DerNebel]

Oh please, don't give me that shame about not calling certain devs lazy.

When I say the devs are lazy and unambitious, I am not talking about the individual programers or artists, I mean that the studios as a whole in how it set out to make this game has by the looks of it been very much lazy and unambitious.

And the arguments that I've seen made against this other than "well we don't know much about the game yet, so let's wait and see if they are ambitious in other ways" have been pretty unconvincing (and even that I don't buy as they've chosen to focus on pretty much exclusively things that were part of the series before with this reveal trailer, but fine we'll see).

1. They focus on gameplay rather than graphics.

The core gameplay in mainline Pokemon games has stayed pretty much the same since the originals. Even here changes have only been incremental. Certain changes don't even stay in the games and are just discarded in the next generation, like getting rid of random encounters in Let's Go.

2. They are a small studio and they release games every year.

That is by choice and not out of necessity. We are not talking about some niche dev here, that would probably go broke, if they didn't get a game out every year. Pokemon is the biggest entertainment franchise in the world, if they actually set out to do it, they would absolutely have the means to bring these games to a point where they meet Nintendo first party standards. Expand and take 1-2 years off.

3. You're just a loud minority, the majority is still fine with this and the game will sell 10mil+ copies anyways.

That doesn't invalidate anything. The fact that the people behind Pokemon continue to be able to make bank doing the bare minimum, does nothing for me. What the fudge do I care, if apparently none of those massive profit margins go back into the games themselves? I'm not an investor, I'm a consumer who is looking for a better product.

[Xevross]

Oh please, don't give me that shame about not calling certain devs lazy.

When I say the devs are lazy and unambitious, I am not talking about the individual programers or artists, I mean that the studios as a whole in how it set out to make this game has by the looks of it been very much lazy and unambitious.

And the arguments that I've seen made against this other than "well we don't know much about the game yet, so let's wait and see if they are ambitious in other ways" have been pretty unconvincing (and even that I don't buy as they've chosen to focus on pretty much exclusively things that were part of the series before with this reveal trailer, but fine we'll see).

1. They focus on gameplay rather than graphics.

The core gameplay in mainline Pokemon games has stayed pretty much the same since the originals. Even here changes have only been incremental. Certain changes don't even stay in the games and are just discarded in the next generation, like getting rid of random encounters in Let's Go.

2. They are a small studio and they release games every year.

That is by choice and not out of necessity. We are not talking about some niche dev here, that would probably go broke, if they didn't get a game out every year. Pokemon is the biggest entertainment franchise in the world, if they actually set out to do it, they would absolutely have the means to bring these games to a point where they meet Nintendo first party standards. Expand and take 1-2 years off.

3. You're just a loud minority, the majority is still fine with this and the game will sell 10mil+ copies anyways.

That doesn't invalidate anything. The fact that the people behind Pokemon continue to be able to make bank doing the bare minimum, does nothing for me. What the fudge do I care, if apparently none of those massive profit margins go back into the games themselves? I'm not an investor, I'm a consumer who is looking for a better product.

Unambitious may be an apt word, but this isn't lazy.

1. No one said that about game freak. Game freak focus on making entirely new worlds with their own well designed cities, levels, stories, dozens of new Pokémon and characters all while refining the formula and adding some interesting unique features every time.

2. Sure I'd love to see them expand and make higher budget games, but that would also greatly increase risk and cause other effects which we have no idea about. Again it's not just black and white. I'll agree with you that maybe it would have been better to take a year off in order to have a bigger jump for gen 8.

3. Again, just because graphics are only slowly improving does not mean they're doing the bare minimum, they crafted this entirely new awesome looking region in a couple of years, that takes some doing.

Game freak have no interest in making big budget games. They know that it'll be mostly useless because the same people will buy their games anyway. They make games which appeal to a mass audience and they see no point in piling money into their engine and graphics when it wouldn't pay off. They're making games for the majority that buy their games, not the minority who would probably never buy them anyway.

And that's fine. I so wish we'd get an incredible looking, almost revolutionary Pokémon game, but it's pretty clear that isn't happening. What we have now is good and if it ain't broke, don't fix it is certainly the attitude.

[kitler53]

Lazy is such a dumb way to phrase the argument but that doesn't nullify the negative feedback.

Kitler isn't a game developer and certainly doesn't know the complex realities of the situation but his dislike stems from a factual thing the devs have done. The devs/publishers might not care about Kitler's opinions since they may have different priorities. Heck Kitler might have completely unrealistic expectations that would bankrupt GameFreak if tried to achieve them. Nevertheless he's not making up his dislike of the current game.

which is why i  brought up your other thread about perception.  a lack of effort is my perception.  

and i'll have to agree with you on the lazy part actually.  my statement is pretty off base.  it is unfair of me to say the developers are lazy.  what i should say is the managers are cheap.  pokemon is a franchise that sells 10 million units of software yearly.  other franchises that consistently sell these numbers have development teams that are in the ballpark of 500 or more people.  game freak is only 143 (according to someone's statement above).  they should hire more people so they can still put in the same level of effort world building but also put some meaningful effort into the presentation.

my opinion.

Unambitious may be an apt word, but this isn't lazy.

1. No one said that about game freak. Game freak focus on making entirely new worlds with their own well designed cities, levels, stories, dozens of new Pokémon and characters all while refining the formula and adding some interesting unique features every time.

2. Sure I'd love to see them expand and make higher budget games, but that would also greatly increase risk and cause other effects which we have no idea about. Again it's not just black and white. I'll agree with you that maybe it would have been better to take a year off in order to have a bigger jump for gen 8.

3. Again, just because graphics are only slowly improving does not mean they're doing the bare minimum, they crafted this entirely new awesome looking region in a couple of years, that takes some doing.

Game freak have no interest in making big budget games. They know that it'll be mostly useless because the same people will buy their games anyway. They make games which appeal to a mass audience and they see no point in piling money into their engine and graphics when it wouldn't pay off. They're making games for the majority that buy their games, not the minority who would probably never buy them anyway.

And that's fine. I so wish we'd get an incredible looking, almost revolutionary Pokémon game, but it's pretty clear that isn't happening. What we have now is good and if it ain't broke, don't fix it is certainly the attitude.

to me that is an awkward argument.  can you name 1 game that released a sequel and completely recycled the previous environment?   did red dead redemption 2 take place in the same landscape as read dead 1?  do you expect GoW 2 to be set in the same region as GoW?  would you be okay with metroid 4 being metroid 1's map with a different story line?

making a new region is like the absolute bare minimum a studio can do and call it a sequel...  

[Cute Pikachu]

Cheap is a fine determination of GF and I agree.

[Xevross]

which is why i  brought up your other thread about perception.  a lack of effort is my perception.  

and i'll have to agree with you on the lazy part actually.  my statement is pretty off base.  it is unfair of me to say the developers are lazy.  what i should say is the managers are cheap.  pokemon is a franchise that sells 10 million units of software yearly.  other franchises that consistently sell these numbers have development teams that are in the ballpark of 500 or more people.  game freak is only 143 (according to someone's statement above).  they should hire more people so they can still put in the same level of effort world building but also put some meaningful effort into the presentation.

my opinion.
to me that is an awkward argument.  can you name 1 game that released a sequel and completely recycled the previous environment?   did red dead redemption 2 take place in the same landscape as read dead 1?  do you expect GoW 2 to be set in the same region as GoW?  would you be okay with metroid 4 being metroid 1's map with a different story line?

making a new region is like the absolute bare minimum a studio can do and call it a sequel...  

Yes I know but what I mean is that they do it much faster than most other studios, and these regions often have completely different themes and environments compared to just being a new map.