Playstation 2 Comes to PS4

[darkknightkryta]

There's a huge licensing issue involved

I found this article

There's a huge licensing issue that I'm sure MS is eating the costs for.  The problem is how Sony made this emulator.  Trophy requirements, etc, are probably forcing this relicensing.  Though, as I said previously, I'd rather take the games looking exactly as they did on my PS2 and have full plug and play, vs having to repurchase them with bells and whistles.  I personally hope they get booed off the stage when they announce this.

[DerNebel]

I found this article

"The main reason PS4 is winning is marketing and the belief that you can see the difference between 1080 and 900P resolution. You can't. Not with the naked eye."

On a site literally called 1080players.... is that guy retarded? But yeah, these kinds of articles are to be expected, pseudo "pro consumer journalists" trying to get hits through fueling the fire of rage against Sony for this, full with half truths to make the whole thing look even more enraging. Sony hasn't been "hemorrhaging money" in quite some time now and nowhere in the article does it even attempt to mention that these games on PS4 are more than just "the same games you alread own on PS2".

There's a huge licensing issue involved There's a huge licensing issue that I'm sure MS is eating the costs for.  The problem is how Sony made this emulator.  Trophy requirements, etc, are probably forcing this relicensing.  Though, as I said previously, I'd rather take the games looking exactly as they did on my PS2 and have full plug and play, vs having to repurchase them with bells and whistles.  I personally hope they get booed off the stage when they announce this.

Booed of the stage for not giving people something that Sony has to carry costs for for free? That's pretty entitled don't you think? I mean if you just want to play your old PS2 games looking the way they did on PS2 then you can just do that on your old PS2 and if you got rid of your PS2 in hopes of being able to in the future play those games on a PS4 for free then that's really on you. Yes, all of this is disappointing but I'm so annoyed that in typical internet fashion people want to once again go ahead and be enraged over something as minor as this, "oh no, now I'm forced to pay for all my PS2 games over again", no you aren't, you can still play all of them on the original platforms that you got them on, assuming you still own that (which I'm going to if you're telling me that you still have this serious PS2 game collection) then that would at best be somewhat of an inconvenience. This is literally what BC is, a workaround for the somewhat inconvenient act of going ahead and plugging in your old system into your TV and people choose to just make a huge deal about that stuff, it's ridiculous to me.

[darkknightkryta]

"The main reason PS4 is winning is marketing and the belief that you can see the difference between 1080 and 900P resolution. You can't. Not with the naked eye."

On a site literally called 1080players.... is that guy retarded? But yeah, these kinds of articles are to be expected, pseudo "pro consumer journalists" trying to get hits through fueling the fire of rage against Sony for this, full with half truths to make the whole thing look even more enraging. Sony hasn't been "hemorrhaging money" in quite some time now and nowhere in the article does it even attempt to mention that these games on PS4 are more than just "the same games you alread own on PS2".
Booed of the stage for not giving people something that Sony has to carry costs for for free? That's pretty entitled don't you think? I mean if you just want to play your old PS2 games looking the way they did on PS2 then you can just do that on your old PS2 and if you got rid of your PS2 in hopes of being able to in the future play those games on a PS4 for free then that's really on you. Yes, all of this is disappointing but I'm so annoyed that in typical internet fashion people want to once again go ahead and be enraged over something as minor as this, "oh no, now I'm forced to pay for all my PS2 games over again", no you aren't, you can still play all of them on the original platforms that you got them on, assuming you still own that (which I'm going to if you're telling me that you still have this serious PS2 game collection) then that would at best be somewhat of an inconvenience. This is literally what BC is, a workaround for the somewhat inconvenient act of going ahead and plugging in your old system into your TV and people choose to just make a huge deal about that stuff, it's ridiculous to me.

I have my PS2 hooked up to my T.V.  I have no issues there.  "Carrying the costs"?  What costs pretell are these?  Sony has the key OP information to make a good emulator and do it for little costs.  They also did this for PSOne titles on PS3 (Though their emulator was a hack job from epsxe and peops from what I can tell).  Though there's a difference between letting already purchased titles work on a new hardware vs putting restrictions on your old titles because you're forcing publishers to update said titles.  It's unnecessary costs.  If they wanted to include an upgrade cost to trophies and the "HD" I honestly wouldn't complain nor care.  Imagine if Apple forced everyone to rebuy their iphone apps when they released the ipad?

[DerNebel]

I have my PS2 hooked up to my T.V.  I have no issues there.  "Carrying the costs"?  What costs pretell are these?  Sony has the key OP information to make a good emulator and do it for little costs.  They also did this for PSOne titles on PS3 (Though their emulator was a hack job from epsxe and peops from what I can tell).  Though there's a difference between letting already purchased titles work on a new hardware vs putting restrictions on your old titles because you're forcing publishers to update said titles.  It's unnecessary costs.  If they wanted to include an upgrade cost to trophies and the "HD" I honestly wouldn't complain nor care.  Imagine if Apple forced everyone to rebuy their iphone apps when they released the ipad?

Oh good thing you know that building that emulator is so easy and cheap for them, wonder why it took them 2 years to make it then. They also have to add trophies into all games as well as make sure they work via remote play (the Vitas inputs are a little different after all), also why would publishers just let Sony do this with their properties for free? Even if it was just normal BC without anything added Sony still wouldn't have the right to just decide to let people play their old games for free if they don't own said IPs. And to your Apple example, imagine if owning DVDs of movies entitled you to their Blu Ray releases for free, you can do this stuff from every angle.

Also if you have your PS2 hooked up to your TV anyway and don't care about the updates made to the games on PS4 then I don't know why you even care, this doesn't seem to affect you at all.

[the-pi-guy]

Oh good thing you know that building that emulator is so easy and cheap for them, wonder why it took them 2 years to make it then.

It did not take them 2 years to build an emulator.
They are doing far more than that here.  

They had to decide to do it, then they decided to make improvements which make time.  They had to get permission of some sort from the publisher.  These things are what took them that time.  

They also have to add trophies into all games as well as make sure they work via remote play (the Vitas inputs are a little different after all), also why would publishers just let Sony do this with their properties for free?

They don't have to add trophies to all PS2 games. They didn't do that for the PS3 versions despite at the time trophies being a requirement for all other games.
Vita controls would only have to be mapped once.  Not for every single game.  This is how it's done on PC.  Emulators don't have to add controls for every individual game, it just has to emulate the one controller.  

Sony saw fit to do that with the PS3 and the PS2.  Why is it completely unreasonable to hope they do the same here?

Even if it was just normal BC without anything added Sony still wouldn't have the right to just decide to let people play their old games for free if they don't own said IPs. And to your Apple example, imagine if owning DVDs of movies entitled you to their Blu Ray releases for free, you can do this stuff from every angle.

They did that for the PS3 and the PS2.  You didn't have to rebuy your old PS1 games to play on either of them.  They wonderfully gave the option to buy them, but you could just as easily put any PS1 game into the PS3 and into the PS2.  

He's not asking for a better version, he's asking for the ability to do the same thing he did with the PS2 and the PS3.  
It'd more akin to being asked to buy an additional DVD because one specific DVD player can't play the other DVD you have, and not because it can't, but because they didn't want to give the option.  

Also if you have your PS2 hooked up to your TV anyway and don't care about the updates made to the games on PS4 then I don't know why you even care, this doesn't seem to affect you at all.

Another thing to remember about electronics, is that they don't last forever.  
What happens if his PS2 dies?  

[DerNebel]

It did not take them 2 years to build an emulator.
They are doing far more than that here.  

They had to decide to do it, then they decided to make improvements which make time.  They had to get permission of some sort from the publisher.  These things are what took them that time.  
They don't have to add trophies to all PS2 games. They didn't do that for the PS3 versions despite at the time trophies being a requirement for all other games.
Vita controls would only have to be mapped once.  Not for every single game.  This is how it's done on PC.  Emulators don't have to add controls for every individual game, it just has to emulate the one controller.  

Sony saw fit to do that with the PS3 and the PS2.  Why is it completely unreasonable to hope they do the same here?
They did that for the PS3 and the PS2.  You didn't have to rebuy your old PS1 games to play on either of them.  They wonderfully gave the option to buy them, but you could just as easily put any PS1 game into the PS3 and into the PS2.  

He's not asking for a better version, he's asking for the ability to do the same thing he did with the PS2 and the PS3.  
It'd more akin to being asked to buy an additional DVD because one specific DVD player can't play the other DVD you have, and not because it can't, but because they didn't want to give the option.  
Another thing to remember about electronics, is that they don't last forever.  
What happens if his PS2 dies?  

Is it unreasonable to hope that they'd do the same thing they did with the PS3 and PS2 after Sony said the PS4 won't be backwards compatible from the start? Yes, it kinda is.

Listen, would I love for the whole emulation thing to work for free and all that? Yes of course I would, but I'm simply looking at this from the perspective of Sony, who has nothing and I mean ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to gain from letting people play their old PS2 games for free on PS4. There is a cost involved for them with something like that, that's a simple fact, but what would it really do for them aside from one day of good headlines?

People aren't buying consoles for something like that, just like they won't stop buying a console for not having that. Sony already is the undisputed top dog so they don't have to do it for superficial gamer goodwill either. So why would Sony do this? Yes now people are mad, but I guarantee they'll get over it pretty dang fast, cause at the end of the day they'll realise that the thing they want to do on their PS4 is not playing PS2 games. That's why BC was abandoned on consoles in the first place and while MS dragged it back into the spotlight this summer it's not gonna stay there cause it just isn't that important to the crushing majority of consumers and doesn't do much for companies that offer it.

[Legend]

Yes, all of this is disappointing but I'm so annoyed that in typical internet fashion people want to once again go ahead and be enraged over something as minor as this

Personally this is comparable the XBOX One's original DRM plans. I'm really glad there is outrage about this, based off our current understanding.

[DerNebel]

Personally this is comparable the XBOX One's original DRM plans. I'm really glad there is outrage about this, based off our current understanding.

I think those two things are not even close to comparable.

[ethomaz]

Trophies sold me to replay them.

Well only Dark Cloud.

[Raven]

Personally this is comparable the XBOX One's original DRM plans. I'm really glad there is outrage about this, based off our current understanding.

I'm not happy about the decision but this isn't even close to the same thing.

[Mmm_fish_tacos]

Personally this is comparable the XBOX One's original DRM plans. I'm really glad there is outrage about this, based off our current understanding.

You're going to have to explain your self on this one.

We aren't getting ps2 BC. We are getting ps2 uprezed ports on ps4. Nothing more. You can buy them or not. If you don't like it don't support it, but to claim it's anything like DRM on xbox is crazy talk.

I my self don't care. I don't have ps2 classics on ps3 and I don't have ps2 disks any more. And I highly doubt it will be the whole library anyway, just hand selected games. And I'm already interested in two that I might buy during a slow period.

[Legend]

Why can't people just automagically be upset with me about this?

Arggg frustrating! I don't want to have to debate this stuff. Guess I'll just leave it alone

[Mmm_fish_tacos]

Why can't people just automagically be upset with me about this?

Arggg frustrating! I don't want to have to debate this stuff. Guess I'll just leave it alone

I don't think anyone is upset with you, I just want to know why you think that. I wont argue against you after. I just find it strange.

[Aura7541]

I feel that people got too carried away with their expectations after Digital Foundry published its article on the emulation of the PS2 Star Wars games. A lot of people were bound to get very disappointed. I was no exception.

That isn't to say there aren't any problems with what Sony is doing. The pricing is actually reasonable (e.g. PS4 San Andreas is priced identically to PS3 San Andreas). The one problem I have is the lack of a crossbuy solution between the PS3 and PS4.

Now is this comparable to Microsoft's original DRM plans for the XBO? Not really. I guess there is the nickel-and-diming parallelism, but that is as far as it goes. When it came to DRM, you didn't have a choice. If you wanted to own an XBO, you have to comply with the DRM policies. When it comes to PS2 classics on the PS4, you have to option to buy or not buy. If sales of a particular game is low because consumers don't think it is worth that much money, Sony will take notice.

[Legend]

I don't think anyone is upset with you, I just want to know why you think that. I wont argue against you after. I just find it strange.

Oh I know no one is upset. I was just halfway through writing a large response when I realised I didn't want to haha.


My feelings about this boil down to the fact that absolutely everything is/has transitioned into ecosystems. Buy a steam game, play on steam. Hardware doesn't matter. Buy an iOS app, play on iOS. Hardware doesn't matter. Buy an Android game, play on Android. Hardware doesn't matter. Nintendo is highly rumored to be transitioning to this as well. Buy an NX game, play on any NX system. Even Sony themselves are doing this with cross buy. Practically all PSN games are buy once, play on every system that supports it.


Yet with these PS2 games, Sony is making an exception and forcing people to pay twice. It's backwards to where the industry is heading, but not a holdout from where the industry came from. I can't think of a single explanation that doesn't involve greed*/incompetence.


*greed is a weird word imo to use for corporations