Dialogue systems

Started by the-pi-guy, Jun 03, 2020, 03:45 AM

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the-pi-guy

Are there any particularly interesting dialogue systems?  



A thought I had about dialogue systems:
Spoiler for Hidden:
Dialogue is pretty much in almost every game, but there are different ways to implement dialogue. &nbsp;<br><br>Many games simply have scripted dialogue where there are no choices whatsoever. &nbsp;<br>Some games give the player choice of script. &nbsp;<br>The other end is no script and using NLP/AI to figure it all out for itself. &nbsp;Although I don&#39;t think any games exist that do this. &nbsp;<br><br>For the developer, there&#39;s an obvious increase in complexity. &nbsp;No script is obviously easiest. &nbsp;Giving the player choices is harder. &nbsp;And for now, AI is even harder. &nbsp;<br><br>For the player though there is a strange difficulty gap. &nbsp;Adding choices makes it more difficult for the player to manage. Or at the very least more time consuming, less fun. &nbsp;<br><br>But then you reach the end of the spectrum and complexity drops. &nbsp;Achieving even some semblance of NLP causes an arguable reduction in complexity. All the complicated trees get replaced by just talking. It&#39;s something you&#39;d do in your head. &nbsp;<br>

Legend

Are there any particularly interesting dialogue systems?  



A thought I had about dialogue systems:
Spoiler for Hidden:
Dialogue is pretty much in almost every game, but there are different ways to implement dialogue.  

Many games simply have scripted dialogue where there are no choices whatsoever.  
Some games give the player choice of script.  
The other end is no script and using NLP/AI to figure it all out for itself.  Although I don't think any games exist that do this.  

For the developer, there's an obvious increase in complexity.  No script is obviously easiest.  Giving the player choices is harder.  And for now, AI is even harder.  

For the player though there is a strange difficulty gap.  Adding choices makes it more difficult for the player to manage. Or at the very least more time consuming, less fun.  

But then you reach the end of the spectrum and complexity drops.  Achieving even some semblance of NLP causes an arguable reduction in complexity. All the complicated trees get replaced by just talking. It's something you'd do in your head.  


Life is Strange is a must play imo. It allows you to try out nearly every dialogue choice and unlike most games, this shows just how powerful the writing is.


Almost all games cheat with ambiguous dialogue and outcomes. e.g.

"Player, what do you think about Mr. X?"

"Mr. X is an evil man." or "Mr. X is misunderstood."

"Yeah player, I'm glad I'm not him."


Mass Effect is infamous for this and it's one of the main reasons why dialogue choices often misalign with player intent. Witcher 3 uses the same trick but handles it better.


Horizon Zero Dawn had pretty minimal dialogue systems but they did a great job feeding world events into the dialogue. Every side conversation would be a little different depending on which quests you had achieved.

If you are looking for a different take on dialogue systems, check out Baba is You if you haven't already.


the-pi-guy

Jun 03, 2020, 03:32 PM Last Edit: Jun 03, 2020, 03:47 PM by the-pi-guy
If you are looking for a different take on dialogue systems
I am looking for a way to give players a lot of choices without being ridiculously complicated for the player.  It just doesn't seem like there's a good answer until you get into NLP. 

I think I know what I'll do.

Legend

I am looking for a way to give players a lot of choices without being ridiculously complicated for the player.  It just doesn't seem like there's a good answer until you get into NLP.  

I think I know what I'll do.
Even NLP is flawed imo. I'd love to support voice powered dialogue in The Forged Kingdoms but on top of being a crazy amount of work, it runs into the "game or sport" problem I talked about a while ago with VR.

Regular dialogue trees railroad the player down specific paths but that lack of freedom makes the game more accessible. With NLP, the player needs to "become" their character and have the same memory and social abilities.

Say the player wants to make a witty remark after finishing a battle. They themselves need to be genuinely clever in order to come up with it. With other dialogue systems it is just "press X to be witty" or a multiple choice test.

the-pi-guy

Even NLP is flawed imo. I'd love to support voice powered dialogue in The Forged Kingdoms but on top of being a crazy amount of work, it runs into the "game or sport" problem I talked about a while ago with VR.

Regular dialogue trees railroad the player down specific paths but that lack of freedom makes the game more accessible. With NLP, the player needs to "become" their character and have the same memory and social abilities.

Say the player wants to make a witty remark after finishing a battle. They themselves need to be genuinely clever in order to come up with it. With other dialogue systems it is just "press X to be witty" or a multiple choice test.
I think you're just putting too high of an expectation on the player!  

Legend

I think you're just putting too high of an expectation on the player!  
Haha the only solution I can think of is making it like when an actor forgets their line on stage. All the NPCs not so subtlety try to remind the player what to say or act as if the player didn't flub it.

Otherwise it's just kinect voice commands instead of NLP.

the-pi-guy

Haha the only solution I can think of is making it like when an actor forgets their line on stage. All the NPCs not so subtlety try to remind the player what to say or act as if the player didn't flub it.
This is what I was thinking.  

Quote
Otherwise it's just kinect voice commands instead of NLP.
Technically arguable!

My AI professor said that a lot of things in AI were no longer considered AI anymore.  

kitler53

the obvious solution is to hire some actor to simply speak in the NPCs lines.   milo is the future!!