No game attempted the TES formula this gen

Started by the-pi-guy, Jul 30, 2020, 12:51 PM

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the-pi-guy

It's not terribly surprising. It's a lot of work to make a game like Skyrim, and that means a lot of risk, especially when you aren't an established IP.

Despite being a huge success last gen, there haven't been any titles that attempted the TES formula.

There were still some great WRPGs, but nothing quite like TES.

Kind of crazy to think about.
(Yes, partially stolen from ERA)

Legend

Jul 30, 2020, 04:48 PM Last Edit: Jul 30, 2020, 04:53 PM by Legend
Saw that era thread.

We've had a bajillion survival crafting games that are kinda like TES. Conan Exiles for example is pretty similar on paper.




The difference of course is that these games focus on the player growing in strength against nature while TES focuses on growing in strength against society.

It's so so so much cheaper to develop the former yet it's just as popular. Why would a studio invest in a true attempt at the TES formula when they could make one of these games instead?


Fallout 4 and The Outer Worlds are true to the TES formula but neither has a fantasy setting. Also there are smaller games that are kinda Elder Scrolls like. Pine for example lacks first person or character creation, but it has an evolving world based off actions and reputations.


Or this random indie game I just found off google: Wytchsun: Elleros Origins on Steam EDT: this game seems to be fraudulent, so maybe that sums up the situation of TES clones.


Next gen we'll at least have Avowed and TES 6 as proper games using the formula.

Xevross

Fine by me, I don't like these kinds of games ;D

the-pi-guy

Fine by me, I don't like these kinds of games ;D
It's okay to have bad taste.
/s

I absolutely adore the freedom.

Xevross

It's okay to have bad taste.
/s

I absolutely adore the freedom.
Freedom in an RPG isn't really freedom. That's what adventure games are for.

the-pi-guy

Freedom in an RPG isn't really freedom. That's what adventure games are for.
What do you mean?  

Xevross

What do you mean?  
In an RPG you're trapped by the experience system and all the stats associated with it. You can't go to some places or fight some enemies because its too high level, you can't do some things because you're not strong enough, you can't pick some dialogue options because you're not charismatic enough. That's not freedom.

Legend

Jul 30, 2020, 07:26 PM Last Edit: Jul 30, 2020, 07:29 PM by Legend
In an RPG you're trapped by the experience system and all the stats associated with it. You can't go to some places or fight some enemies because its too high level, you can't do some things because you're not strong enough, you can't pick some dialogue options because you're not charismatic enough. That's not freedom.
What is the difference between that and a locked door not opening up unless you have the key?

You have freedom but that freedom only means you have the potential to do things, not that those things don't require prior planning/setup.


I don't really like a lot of rpg systems but I've never thought of adventure games having more freedom.

the-pi-guy

In an RPG you're trapped by the experience system and all the stats associated with it. You can't go to some places or fight some enemies because its too high level, you can't do some things because you're not strong enough, you can't pick some dialogue options because you're not charismatic enough. That's not freedom.
Skyrim has some issues but none of those things really happen there.

Game has level scaling so there aren't enemies like that.

Xevross

What is the difference between that and a locked door not opening up unless you have the key?

You have freedom but that freedom only means you have the potential to do things, not that those things don't require prior planning/setup.


I don't really like a lot of rpg systems but I've never thought of adventure games having more freedom.
Well they don't really either but they can do. RPGs by default will never allow you to have full freedom while adventure games might. You're never going to get the excellence of BOTW in an RPG.

Legend

Well they don't really either but they can do. RPGs by default will never allow you to have full freedom while adventure games might. You're never going to get the excellence of BOTW in an RPG.
Oh you mean stuff like botw!

Adventure games are usually more restrictive with traditional puzzles. I don't think there is a specific genre for botw besides the super broad term action-adventure.

the-pi-guy

It feels related.  

But there's been a general tendency, especially this last gen I would say for genres to get more mixed up.  

Action adventure games with more RPG features.  Stuff like that.  

There's been a lot more blending of genres, it feels like.

Xevross

Jul 30, 2020, 09:00 PM Last Edit: Jul 30, 2020, 09:02 PM by Xevross
Oh you mean stuff like botw!

Adventure games are usually more restrictive with traditional puzzles. I don't think there is a specific genre for botw besides the super broad term action-adventure.

Eh game genres are so weird nowadays. I thought we were still just talking about big open world games. I was saying for a big open world game you get more freedom if its going for more of an adventure style game than RPG. And yes I was thinking of games like BOTW as more of an example where there's no skill trees or levels or anything to gate progress really, you just do what you want. Ghost of Tsushima recently is part way there although you unlock the map progressively. When you have a part of the map unlocked you have total freedom to do whatever you want there in whatever order.

It feels related. 

But there's been a general tendency, especially this last gen I would say for genres to get more mixed up. 

Action adventure games with more RPG features.  Stuff like that. 

There's been a lot more blending of genres, it feels like.
Yeah definitely as games get more complex they're involving a mix of elements from lots of different classic genres. Most of the time its a good thing but so often games do get dragged down by adding RPG stuff when its not needed (imo obviously).

Legend

Jul 30, 2020, 09:06 PM Last Edit: Jul 30, 2020, 09:17 PM by Legend
It feels related.  

But there's been a general tendency, especially this last gen I would say for genres to get more mixed up.  

Action adventure games with more RPG features.  Stuff like that.  

There's been a lot more blending of genres, it feels like.

Genres are so hard to track.

Take for example immersive sims. The genre pretty much only exists because the same groups of developers kept making games with similar concepts. If Dishonored and Prey released without such an easy to track legacy, they'd just be bundled up in the generic action adventure genre.

Same goes for soulsborne. The games have a ton of similar features but without the clear legacy, they're very traditional combat focused games. Will the genre even survive if Fromsoft doesn't make another game in it? Or will more and more games experiment with the genre until just a core element remains, like exploration with non common checkpoints?


Eh game genres are so weird nowadays. I thought we were still just talking about big open world games. I was saying for a big open world game you get more freedom if its going for more of an adventure style game than RPG. And yes I was thinking of games like BOTW as more of an example where there's no skill trees or levels or anything to gate progress really, you just do what you want. Ghost of Tsushima recently is part way there although you unlock the map progressively. When you have a part of the map unlocked you have total freedom to do whatever you want there in whatever order.
Skyrim and the rest of the elder scrolls are pretty similar in that regard. Whole map unlocks after the initial tutorial and quests can be done in whatever order. Skill trees and levels do not gate progress for the most part.

Ghost of Tsushima fakes some of its freedom. I'm still super early but one thing I noticed is that forts will be "too strong" to be attacked yet, but that actually means that invisible archers will kill you if you stay in the area. It's not like botw where you can accomplish anything at any time as long as you have the skill. Also my brother had a lighthouse delight itself since the game wanted him to do it during a mission.

Yeah definitely as games get more complex they're involving a mix of elements from lots of different classic genres. Most of the time its a good thing but so often games do get dragged down by adding RPG stuff when its not needed (imo obviously).
Fully agree with that. RPG leveling just sucks in near everything. It either breaks things because it replaces freedom with grinding or it's paired with level scaling and makes progression feel bad.

Xevross

Skyrim and the rest of the elder scrolls are pretty similar in that regard. Whole map unlocks after the initial tutorial and quests can be done in whatever order. Skill trees and levels do not gate progress for the most part.
Yes I'm not a big fan of skyrim and bethesda RPGs for totally different reasons to what this debate evolved into.