Can we just state the obvious? Conservatives are horrible human beings committed to inflicting suffering and misery on humanity?

Started by kitler53, Apr 22, 2022, 06:35 PM

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kitler53

In current events Florida has rejects almost half the approved math book as containing too "controversial" of content to be taught to kids.   here  you can see some examples of what conservatives deem to inappropriate to teach to a kid:

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/04/22/us/florida-rejected-textbooks.html

in short, they don't want kids to have any exposure to:
- empathy
- how to deal with and overcome feelings of frustration
- self confidence
- treating others with respect

they are pitching these books as "radical left rewiring to left wing ideology" but it's real focus is on improving yourself both academically and emotionally.

thus, if conservatives deem this as "political" then the only conclusion that can be made is it right wing ideology to be the complete opposite of being a decent human being:
- greedy an unmindful of those around them
- ignorant and angry about it
- weak minded and submissive to authoritarians
- violent and abusive to others


In short, conservatives are horrible human beings committed to inflicting suffering and misery on humanity.   that's just a fact now.  it's the core of their political ideology. 


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SWORDF1SH

I've seen some of those books that got rejected and they seem pretty sus to me. I don't think labelling 1 side like you did really helps the conversation. It's annoying that both sides hold so much hate for each other that no rational Discord can be had. I'm fed up with all this labelling to cause divide

the-pi-guy

Apr 22, 2022, 07:22 PM Last Edit: Apr 22, 2022, 07:33 PM by the-pi-guy
I've seen some of those books that got rejected and they seem pretty sus to me. I don't think labelling 1 side like you did really helps the conversation. It's annoying that both sides hold so much hate for each other that no rational Discord can be had. I'm fed up with all this labelling to cause divide
I don't like Kitler's framing of it, but I get where he's coming from.

I've spent the past several years having conversations with people.

I've been polite, even to people that were legitimately openly white supremacists, because I thought it would make it more likely for people to listen to me, and debate honestly.

I've been factual, providing sources and arguments to every single claim. I would spend hours researching stuff, even to the point where it was legitimately straining on my marriage.

In the end, none of it ever mattered.
My politeness was virtue signaling. My sources were propaganda.
My arguments were twisted to bizarre versions of themselves.


We can't talk about how black people have life harder than white people on average, without people claiming racism is gone, black people deserve a hard life, maybe if they didn't have single parents.

We can't talk about black people having a harder life on average, without people claiming that "we hate white people".

We can't talk about climate change without people complaining that it's all a government conspiracy, it's not real, the science isn't settled.

We can't talk about vaccines without people complaining that it's all Bill Gates conspiracies, a government conspiracy, we're being experimented on.

We can't talk about transgender people, or even that biology is way more complex than what we learn in a middle school classroom, without someone calling people they think are weird, rapists and pedophiles. 

We can't even talk about the existence of gay people without being called pedophiles.

I don't hate white or straight or cis or Christian people, just because I think other people, that aren't those things, also deserve a good life. 

I don't hate conservatives. I just wish they'd listen to reason, stop making enemies out of every fricken thing they don't understand.

And when it comes to climate change, I wish they'd actually try coming up with solutions instead of being this:

Spoiler for Hidden:
<br><img src="https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/s7qMSKpeavBerH1LCyFPIkNrW4k=/0x0:900x500/1400x1050/filters:focal(378x178:522x322):format(jpeg)/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/49493993/this-is-fine.0.jpg" alt="" class="bbc_img"><br>

kitler53

Apr 22, 2022, 07:25 PM Last Edit: Apr 22, 2022, 07:27 PM by kitler53
I've seen some of those books that got rejected and they seem pretty sus to me. I don't think labelling 1 side like you did really helps the conversation. It's annoying that both sides hold so much hate for each other that no rational Discord can be had. I'm fed up with all this labelling to cause divide
i'm tired of our kangaroo supreme court.

i'm tired of the constant attacks on voting rights.

i'm pissed we had an insuration to overturn the election that half this country views them as "patriots".

i'm pissed conservatives in michigan attempted to kidnap and murder the governor.

i'm pissed a conservative politicians literally stating "when do we get to start shooting democrats?" and no conservative was willing to even condemn it.

i'm pissed conservatives are now using government to punish corporations that don't fully support conservative agendas no matter how inhumane they are.


this isn't a "both sides" argument.   conservatives are one tucker carlson monologue away from being in full support an authoritarian take over of America in order to commit mass genocide of political adversaries.   it's why trump has soo many nice things to say about putin.   ...they envy Russia's sham elections, state-controlled media, and the lack of consequences for murdering his political adversaries.  that is the dystopian future conservatives are bringing to America,.. the end of freedom and the reign of conservative terrorism.


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SWORDF1SH

Apr 22, 2022, 07:47 PM Last Edit: Apr 22, 2022, 07:55 PM by SWORDF1SH
I don't like Kitler's framing of it, but I get where he's coming from.

I've spent the past several years having conversations with people.

I've been polite, even to people that were legitimately openly white supremacists, because I thought it would make it more likely for people to listen to me, and debate honestly.

I've been factual, providing sources and arguments to every single claim. I would spend hours researching stuff, even to the point where it was legitimately straining on my marriage.

In the end, none of it ever mattered.
My politeness was virtue signaling. My sources were propaganda.
My arguments were twisted to bizarre versions of themselves.


We can't talk about how black people have life harder than white people on average, without people claiming racism is gone, black people deserve a hard life, maybe if they didn't have single parents.

We can't talk about black people having a harder life on average, without people claiming that "we hate white people".

We can't talk about climate change without people complaining that it's all a government conspiracy, it's not real, the science isn't settled.

We can't talk about vaccines without people complaining that it's all Bill Gates conspiracies, a government conspiracy, we're being experimented on.

We can't talk about transgender people, or even that biology is way more complex than what we learn in a middle school classroom, without someone calling people they think are weird, rapists and pedophiles.  

We can't even talk about the existence of gay people without being called pedophiles.

I don't hate white or straight or cis or Christian people, just because I think other people, that aren't those things, also deserve a good life.  

I don't hate conservatives. I just wish they'd listen to reason, stop making enemies out of every fricken thing they don't understand.

And when it comes to climate change, I wish they'd actually try coming up with solutions instead of being this:

Spoiler for Hidden:



This is why I think it's a problem on both sides. There are reasonable people on both sides that are willing to talk but there's so few. People like yourself might want a reasonable debate but won't find anybody open minded enough to talk and same for people on the other side of the fence. Everybody just concludes that each side are closed minded and wrong, even the reasonable people because they can't find a decent debate.
Idk, it all just makes me sick and why I very rarely discuss politics.

i'm tired of our kangaroo supreme court.

i'm tired of the constant attacks on voting rights.

i'm pissed we had an insuration to overturn the election that half this country views them as "patriots".

i'm pissed conservatives in michigan attempted to kidnap and murder the governor.

i'm pissed a conservative politicians literally stating "when do we get to start shooting democrats?" and no conservative was willing to even condemn it.

i'm pissed conservatives are now using government to punish corporations that don't fully support conservative agendas no matter how inhumane they are.


this isn't a "both sides" argument.   conservatives are one tucker carlson monologue away from being in full support an authoritarian take over of America in order to commit mass genocide of political adversaries.   it's why trump has soo many nice things to say about putin.   ...they envy Russia's sham elections, state-controlled media, and the lack of consequences for murdering his political adversaries.  that is the dystopian future conservatives are bringing to America,.. the end of freedom and the reign of conservative terrorism.
That sounds a very one sided opinion to me but something I'm not going to argue about. My issue is more along the lines of why tf can't people talk about issues instead of pointing fingers. We should have the freedom to talk about things without getting shut down and disagreeing is part of an healthy argument. It's just that people get over aggressive and everything turns into a shouting match. It's not productive.

the-pi-guy

Apr 22, 2022, 08:09 PM Last Edit: Apr 22, 2022, 08:17 PM by the-pi-guy
This is why I think it's a problem on both sides. There are reasonable people on both sides that are willing to talk but there's so few. People like yourself might want a reasonable debate but won't find anybody open minded enough to talk and same for people on the other side of the fence. Everybody just concludes that each side are closed minded and wrong, even the reasonable people because they can't find a decent debate.
Idk, it all just makes me sick and why I very rarely discuss politics.
The smartest, most open minded and reasonable conservative I've ever talked to, still justified lots of nonsense.

I've never found a reasonable conservative willing to talk about solutions to racism or climate change. And it's not from a lack of trying.

I'm sure they're out there, but they don't seem willing to talk.

Quote
That sounds a very one sided opinion to me but something I'm not going to argue about. My issue is more along the lines of why tf can't people talk about issues instead of pointing fingers. We should have the freedom to talk about things without getting shut down and disagreeing is part of an healthy argument. It's just that people get over aggressive and everything turns into a shouting match. It's not productive.
Part of the problem is that people can't even agree on what the issues even are.

We can't fix climate change, if half the politicians are convinced that it's not real.
We can't fix racism, if both halves of the politicians are convinced that opposite sides are the victims of racism.


And I disagree heavily that conservatives are getting shut down for reasonable discussion. They're not getting shut down for having different ideas on how to tackle climate change, or racism or transphobia.

They might be getting shut down for climate change denial, or transphobia. Which I don't think is optimal, but it's dangerous for hatred and lies to propagate. 

SWORDF1SH

The smartest, most open minded and reasonable conservative I've ever talked to, still justified lots of nonsense.

I've never found a reasonable conservative willing to talk about solutions to racism or climate change. And it's not from a lack of trying.

I'm sure they're out there, but they don't seem willing to talk.

Part of the problem is that people can't even agree on what the issues even are.

We can't fix climate change, if half the politicians are convinced that it's not real.
We can't fix racism, if both halves of the politicians are convinced that opposite sides are the victims of racism.


And I disagree heavily that conservatives are getting shut down for reasonable discussion. They're not getting shut down for having different ideas on how to tackle climate change, or racism or transphobia.

They might be getting shut down for climate change denial, or transphobia. Which I don't think is optimal, but it's dangerous for hatred and lies to propagate.  
Do all conservatives really believe climate change isn't a thing, do all conservatives believe that trans issues aren't a thing and do all conservatives believe that racism isn't a thing or do they just disagree with the way it's being dealt with? If they aren't acknowledging these issues at all then that's wrong. Still, freedom of speech should always remain because letting corporations and governments sensor people is a slippery slope. I feel I'm starting to go off topic about freedom of speech but it all ties in.

kitler53

Apr 22, 2022, 09:03 PM Last Edit: Apr 22, 2022, 09:08 PM by kitler53
Do all conservatives really believe climate change isn't a thing, do all conservatives believe that trans issues aren't a thing and do all conservatives believe that racism isn't a thing or do they just disagree with the way it's being dealt with? If they aren't acknowledging these issues at all then that's wrong. Still, freedom of speech should always remain because letting corporations and governments sensor people is a slippery slope. I feel I'm starting to go off topic about freedom of speech but it all ties in.
my conservative dad to me  "gays should shut the fudge up about being discriminated and just be thankful we don't kill them like god intended."

conservatives argued that that gay marriage is unconstitutional because a Christians "freedom of religion" is infringed if their view on marriage isn't applied to all citizens regardless of their religion.

conservatives are fighting for "stand your ground" laws where ordinary citizens can murder other citizens if the "feel afraid".   we've had a ton of cases where in recent years where a conservative activist murdered someone "in self defense" after aggressively harassing and threatening someone else and then suddenly feeling "afraid" that this UNARMED citizen might try to shoot them.

conservatives passed an anti-abortion law that removes what is supposed to have been a legally as a constitutional right to an abortion.  the law was upheld by our kangaroo supreme court because the law was designed (on purpose) to be soooooo unconstitutional there is no "legal" way to challenge the law and thus the law remains in effect despite being purposefully unconstitutional.

conservatives actively deny climate change.

conservative views on racism is that the only real racism in America is against white men.

...that's why conservatives in Florida and Texas made it illegal for schools to teach or acknowledge in any way that American allowed slavery.  it's illegal to cover such a "controversial" topic because a white person may be made to feel guilty about our history.

also conservatives in Florida made it illegal for schools to acknowledge that homosexuality exists.


...what was that you were saying about free speech again?!?


maybe i'm just having a bad day but i need to vent.   conservatives in america are scum.


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the-pi-guy

Do all conservatives really believe climate change isn't a thing, do all conservatives believe that trans issues aren't a thing and do all conservatives believe that racism isn't a thing or do they just disagree with the way it's being dealt with? If they aren't acknowledging these issues at all then that's wrong.
There are certainly a lot of conservatives out there that agree with those things being issues. I haven't seen them propose any real solutions.

I'm frustrated and I'm scared.
Some of the smartest people that I know, that I love and respect, don't seem to care about these issues.
I'm worried about how climate change will affect my kids and their generation.
I'm worried about how people will treat my kids, if they end up being gay or trans.

At this point I feel like I'm on a sinking ship, screaming that people are drowning. And a lot of people don't seem to care, and a lot of the rest are cheering it on.

Quote
Still, freedom of speech should always remain because letting corporations and governments sensor people is a slippery slope. I feel I'm starting to go off topic about freedom of speech but it all ties in.
I think freedom of speech is important, but I also view it as a double edged sword.

It can bring out the worst in people and weaponize them. Propaganda works.

SWORDF1SH

There are certainly a lot of conservatives out there that agree with those things being issues. I haven't seen them propose any real solutions.

I'm frustrated and I'm scared.
Some of the smartest people that I know, that I love and respect, don't seem to care about these issues.
I'm worried about how climate change will affect my kids and their generation.
I'm worried about how people will treat my kids, if they end up being gay or trans.

At this point I feel like I'm on a sinking ship, screaming that people are drowning. And a lot of people don't seem to care, and a lot of the rest are cheering it on.

I think freedom of speech is important, but I also view it as a double edged sword.

It can bring out the worst in people and weaponize them. Propaganda works.
I respect your opinions. I have a different take on this but also see some of the things you see but I do appreciate what you've said. I will also keep what you said in my mind. I'm trying to figure all this out myself and scared of being brain washed by one side or the other. I really value opinions from intelligent people like yourself, so it's not wasted on me.

kitler53

Reuters: Trump allies breach US voting systems in search of 'evidence'.
https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/usa-election-breaches/


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kitler53

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/07/14/texas-sues-biden-administration-over-abortion-rule.html

Quote
Texas on Thursday asked a federal court to block the Biden administration's requirement that physicians and hospitals provide abortions in medical emergencies.
there are no words to describe my anger at this...


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kitler53

i think it's obvious that nancy was the real target.  the motivation is as simple as conservatives are horrible human beings and assassinations and violence has always been fundamental to how they deal with politics:  lincon.  martian luther.  jfk.  lynching.  tulsa.  

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/10/28/us/politics/nancy-pelosi-husband-assaulted.html


Quote
Speaker Nancy Pelosi's husband, Paul Pelosi, was hospitalized after he was assaulted by someone who broke into the couple's residence in San Francisco early on Friday morning, a spokesman for Ms. Pelosi said.

"Early this morning, an assailant broke into the Pelosi residence in San Francisco and violently assaulted Mr. Pelosi," Drew Hammill, the spokesman, said in a statement on Friday. "The assailant is in custody and the motivation for the attack is under investigation."


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kitler53



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kitler53

probably not quite the right place to post this but i don't feel like making a dedicated thread...

...this deal with Kevin McCarthy is just embarrasing.



let me be clear here,.. i want to call out these 20 "republicans" that are never-McCarthyers as being the scum.   it's such vivid example of how they are just incapable governing the country.   soo obsessed with their personal goals and they give 0-fudges that anyone else in the country and finding common ground should be the goal.   i really hope the moderate republicans win here.  i'd be soo excited if the moderate republicans made a deal with democrats to elect a moderate republican for speaker.   anything to put these extremists republicans in their place.  

geez,.. you'd think that people like boebert (who barely won her election) would realize that this kind of behavior is exactly why the "red wave" never happened.


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