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Gaming => Gaming Community => Topic started by: nnodley on May 06, 2022, 07:40 PM

Title: My INDIEGOGO has launched!
Post by: nnodley on May 06, 2022, 07:40 PM
I have finally launched my indiegogo. We shall see what heppens.

DiForm Saga: Awakening | Indiegogo (https://igg.me/at/DiFormSaga/x/27751656#/)
Title: Re: My INDIEGOGO has launched!
Post by: SWORDF1SH on May 06, 2022, 08:02 PM
I backed :)  Would of got the highest package but you don't deliver outside of the US  :(
Title: Re: My INDIEGOGO has launched!
Post by: Legend on May 06, 2022, 08:06 PM
First off congrats!

Really quickly though an extra level of polish could do wonders. There is some awkward grammar including "Unreal Engine 5 using nanite and lumen to achieve as high of quality we can achieve" and the last line of the Essem definition. Also audio on the videos would be really beneficial since up till the hum by the door, I was worried it was a glitch. Generic atmospheric audio on both would help sell the environments too.
Title: Re: My INDIEGOGO has launched!
Post by: SWORDF1SH on May 06, 2022, 08:06 PM
Also good luck!
Title: Re: My INDIEGOGO has launched!
Post by: nnodley on May 06, 2022, 08:07 PM
I backed :)  Would of got the highest package but you don't deliver outside of the US  :(
Thank you! And yeah i was debating on whether to do shipping outside of US, but ultimately just landed on keeping it US based.

First off congrats!

Really quickly though an extra level of polish could do wonders. There is some awkward grammar including "Unreal Engine 5 using nanite and lumen to achieve as high of quality we can achieve" and the last line of the Essem definition. Also audio on the videos would be really beneficial since up till the hum by the door, I was worried it was a glitch. Generic atmospheric audio on both would help sell the environments too.
Noted.  I really debated on adding sound for these videos, but personally didn't feel it would affect anything too much. But who knows.  We shall see

Also it is a flexible goal funding. So i believe i keep anything after i hit $100. If i don't it gets refunded.
Title: Re: My INDIEGOGO has launched!
Post by: Legend on May 06, 2022, 08:43 PM
Thank you! And yeah i was debating on whether to do shipping outside of US, but ultimately just landed on keeping it US based.
Noted.  I really debated on adding sound for these videos, but personally didn't feel it would affect anything too much. But who knows.  We shall see

Also it is a flexible goal funding. So i believe i keep anything after i hit $100. If i don't it gets refunded.
Well you should have no problem hitting $100 haha.

With sound, try playing both these videos simultaneously while watching yours.



That opening shot with the waves feels so much more powerful when you can hear them, and the birds add a whole extra dimension. Of course you can't use this specific audio, but it's an easy trick I use to preview atmospheric sound.


Title: Re: My INDIEGOGO has launched!
Post by: nnodley on May 06, 2022, 08:48 PM
Well you should have no problem hitting $100 haha.

With sound, try playing both these videos simultaneously while watching yours.



That opening shot with the waves feels so much more powerful when you can hear them, and the birds add a whole extra dimension. Of course you can't use this specific audio, but it's an easy trick I use to preview atmospheric sound.



You are for sure right on it.  It definitely helps.  I'll likely just add some quickly and update the videos at night when less people might be potentially looking at it
Title: Re: My INDIEGOGO has launched!
Post by: the-pi-guy on May 06, 2022, 08:56 PM
Of course you can't use this specific audio, but it's an easy trick I use to preview atmospheric sound.

Who's going to stop him? The government?

Spoiler for Hidden:
<br>I kid ;D <br>
Title: Re: My INDIEGOGO has launched!
Post by: Legend on May 06, 2022, 09:55 PM
Who's going to stop him? The government?

Spoiler for Hidden:

I kid ;D

Youtube would which is arguably worse!

Title: Re: My INDIEGOGO has launched!
Post by: Legend on May 06, 2022, 11:22 PM
Here's a bunch of general feedback and nitpicks. Don't want to overload you, but just offer some things to consider.

Spoiler for Hidden:
<br><br>The gameplay trailer should be renamed to something more descriptive, like DiForm Saga: Awakening Island Scenery. I know the game is not a walking simulator, but that video makes it look like that&#39;s the only gameplay the finished game will have.<br><br>Similarly I&#39;d put more focus on gameplay in the project page. There is a lot of talk about the lore and setting, but very little about what players will experience. Don&#39;t bog it down with specific mechanics, just make it look like a fun thing to play. You can always just compare it to similar games if you&#39;re not ready to talk about anything else.<br><br>The boat in the trailer. Is that metal rod near the center supposed to connect to something? It looks out of place. Also the project page and desk date make it sound like the game takes place in the future, but the boat looks like a modern boat. I&#39;m unsure of the time period.<br><br>Just as an FYI, Sony and Microsoft have rules about being listed when crowdsourcing. You&#39;re probably fine since they&#39;re not listed as a definitive platform or a stretch goal, but you can&#39;t take funding for a console platform until you are a registered developer.<br><br>Hollow is a good name for a cool looking device.<br><br>I believe &quot;golden worlds&quot; is a term from Mass Effect. &quot;habitable worlds&quot; might be easier for readers to understand.<br><br>The concept of the DiForm setting up a test for new life forms is interesting. Makes me wonder why the threat wouldn&#39;t be able to solve such a test. I have some theories but I&#39;ll stay quiet. &nbsp;8) <br><br>The studio logo at the <span style="font-size: 1em;" class="bbc_size">beginning</span> of the videos is too long. Realistically it shouldn&#39;t be there at all since no one cares about your brand yet. The first few seconds need to get the viewer interested. The game logo at the end of the video works great. You could put a shortened version of the studio logo after it, or below it. For fun I pulled up my first youtube video which was really bad with its intro logo. Your studio logo is 13 seconds, while mine was 27 seconds lol!!! I really like the <span style="font-size: 1em;" class="bbc_size">particle</span> affects on yours.<br><br>I&#39;d cut out the loading in the trailer. A raw &quot;first 5 minutes&quot; video near release should keep it, but right now it&#39;s just a waste of the viewer&#39;s time.<br><br>The text in the trailer comes too fast. The total length is probably fine but I feel rushed as new lines appear, only to have plenty of reading time once everything is there.<br><br>The text in the trailer is annoying to read with its font and glow. I&#39;d try to find a way to make it more legible without sacrificing your artistic desires.<br><br>Could the trailer text be broken up? Imagine if the boat starts really far from the island and it&#39;s just visible on the horizon. The main menu cuts directly to this shot with the boat speeding towards it. Cut to black with the first three lines appearing pretty much as they do currently. Then cut back to the boat with it this time much closer, maybe a <span style="font-size: 1em;" class="bbc_size">barrier</span> is visible and very close, but the boat is still <span style="font-size: 1em;" class="bbc_size">preceding</span> at full speed. Cuts back to black, showing the last two lines appear. Then it switches back to the boat for the final cut as it reaches landfall. IDK. I&#39;ve struggled with the intro to my game a lot, trying to fit as much context and purpose as I can into a cool opening.<br><br>The trees look great in the wind!<br><br>Your world is really great at making me want to know more. In the gameplay video I keep seeing things off in the distance that I wish I could walk over towards, but that will have to wait till I play haha.<br><br>Are the &quot;temples&quot; in the beginning and ending of the gameplay video the same asset? Maybe there&#39;s a lore reason, but it strikes me as confusing with both being the only things shown in the video.<br><br>Now for an actual spoiler maybe.<br><br><div style="margin:20px; margin-top:5px"><div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px"><b>Spoiler</b> for <i>Hidden</i>: <input type="button" value="Show" style="width:60px;font-size:10px;margin:0px;padding:0px;" onClick="if (this.parentNode.parentNode.getElementsByTagName('div')[1].getElementsByTagName('div')[0].style.display != '') { this.parentNode.parentNode.getElementsByTagName('div')[1].getElementsByTagName('div')[0].style.display = ''; this.value = 'Hide'; } else { this.parentNode.parentNode.getElementsByTagName('div')[1].getElementsByTagName('div')[0].style.display = 'none'; this.value = 'Show'; }"></div><div class="alt2" style="margin: 0px; padding: 6px; border: 1px inset;"><div style="display: none;"><br><br>Friday the 13th, 2108. Interesting &nbsp;;) <br>(also a leap year)<br></div></div></div><br><br>
Title: Re: My INDIEGOGO has launched!
Post by: nnodley on May 07, 2022, 02:51 AM
Here's a bunch of general feedback and nitpicks. Don't want to overload you, but just offer some things to consider.

Spoiler for Hidden:


The gameplay trailer should be renamed to something more descriptive, like DiForm Saga: Awakening Island Scenery. I know the game is not a walking simulator, but that video makes it look like that's the only gameplay the finished game will have.

Similarly I'd put more focus on gameplay in the project page. There is a lot of talk about the lore and setting, but very little about what players will experience. Don't bog it down with specific mechanics, just make it look like a fun thing to play. You can always just compare it to similar games if you're not ready to talk about anything else.

The boat in the trailer. Is that metal rod near the center supposed to connect to something? It looks out of place. Also the project page and desk date make it sound like the game takes place in the future, but the boat looks like a modern boat. I'm unsure of the time period.

Just as an FYI, Sony and Microsoft have rules about being listed when crowdsourcing. You're probably fine since they're not listed as a definitive platform or a stretch goal, but you can't take funding for a console platform until you are a registered developer.

Hollow is a good name for a cool looking device.

I believe "golden worlds" is a term from Mass Effect. "habitable worlds" might be easier for readers to understand.

The concept of the DiForm setting up a test for new life forms is interesting. Makes me wonder why the threat wouldn't be able to solve such a test. I have some theories but I'll stay quiet.  8)

The studio logo at the beginning of the videos is too long. Realistically it shouldn't be there at all since no one cares about your brand yet. The first few seconds need to get the viewer interested. The game logo at the end of the video works great. You could put a shortened version of the studio logo after it, or below it. For fun I pulled up my first youtube video which was really bad with its intro logo. Your studio logo is 13 seconds, while mine was 27 seconds lol!!! I really like the particle affects on yours.

I'd cut out the loading in the trailer. A raw "first 5 minutes" video near release should keep it, but right now it's just a waste of the viewer's time.

The text in the trailer comes too fast. The total length is probably fine but I feel rushed as new lines appear, only to have plenty of reading time once everything is there.

The text in the trailer is annoying to read with its font and glow. I'd try to find a way to make it more legible without sacrificing your artistic desires.

Could the trailer text be broken up? Imagine if the boat starts really far from the island and it's just visible on the horizon. The main menu cuts directly to this shot with the boat speeding towards it. Cut to black with the first three lines appearing pretty much as they do currently. Then cut back to the boat with it this time much closer, maybe a barrier is visible and very close, but the boat is still preceding at full speed. Cuts back to black, showing the last two lines appear. Then it switches back to the boat for the final cut as it reaches landfall. IDK. I've struggled with the intro to my game a lot, trying to fit as much context and purpose as I can into a cool opening.

The trees look great in the wind!

Your world is really great at making me want to know more. In the gameplay video I keep seeing things off in the distance that I wish I could walk over towards, but that will have to wait till I play haha.

Are the "temples" in the beginning and ending of the gameplay video the same asset? Maybe there's a lore reason, but it strikes me as confusing with both being the only things shown in the video.

Now for an actual spoiler maybe.

Spoiler for Hidden:


Friday the 13th, 2108. Interesting  ;)
(also a leap year)



Good feedback. There are a couple I'll try to just sneakily update. Especially the video name. That makes sense. I was trying to name it and I didn't feel gameplay was the right option. Some are definitely things to think about for the final game for sure.  You don't realize how much there is to think about for a game until your in the thick of it and you sometimes get blinders on and need feedback. So that helps

Interesting idea for the opening boat sequence. I've definitely been mulling over having the boat start from a greater distance. The impact of that might be a lot better

This is where I just wish I could have a very small team to help with development. There's a lot I would like to do but I'm somewhat limited on my skills so I'm trying to make it work around what I can do but still be fun and engaging.

No matter what I'm gonna try and do everything I can to be able to build a team at some point
Title: Re: My INDIEGOGO has launched!
Post by: Legend on May 07, 2022, 04:40 AM
Good feedback. There are a couple I'll try to just sneakily update. Especially the video name. That makes sense. I was trying to name it and I didn't feel gameplay was the right option. Some are definitely things to think about for the final game for sure.  You don't realize how much there is to think about for a game until your in the thick of it and you sometimes get blinders on and need feedback. So that helps

Interesting idea for the opening boat sequence. I've definitely been mulling over having the boat start from a greater distance. The impact of that might be a lot better

This is where I just wish I could have a very small team to help with development. There's a lot I would like to do but I'm somewhat limited on my skills so I'm trying to make it work around what I can do but still be fun and engaging.

No matter what I'm gonna try and do everything I can to be able to build a team at some point
I really appreciate feedback for my games so I can relate. It's hard when most friends can't think like a dev so you're pretty much on your own.

It's one reason why I really recommend going to conventions. I only managed to do it once pre-covid, but it was incredible getting so much feedback in such a short amount of time (also great seeing people enjoy playing your game). It takes a bit of time, but you should also consider making a game demo. Make it exclusive to indiegogo backers, or just make it a timed exclusive.

Working around our limitations is the name of the game! Often times they lead to more creative games. Five Nights at Freddy's is a pretty famous example. Scott Cawthon's previous work was criticized as having disturbingly bad animations, so he turned that into a feature for FNAF. Lucas Pope designed Return of the Obra Din with a retro pixel art style to save time on modeling, and he froze time so the game didn't need animations.
Title: Re: My INDIEGOGO has launched!
Post by: nnodley on May 07, 2022, 02:33 PM
Well I hit over $100 so now I get to keep whatever I do make. I'll probably do an extension to the full 60 days and just try to keep posting updates to it and just sharing everywhere possible
Title: Re: My INDIEGOGO has launched!
Post by: Legend on May 23, 2022, 05:49 PM
Cool new video. I like seeing the foot at the end.
Title: Re: My INDIEGOGO has launched!
Post by: nnodley on May 23, 2022, 05:56 PM
Cool new video. I like seeing the foot at the end.
dang that was quick. lol

But thanks.  I also extended the campaign.  We are in florida for a week and i want to when we get back continue to market it as best i can and for as long as i can

at this point i'd like to just hit over $1000 in funds.
Title: Re: My INDIEGOGO has launched!
Post by: Legend on May 24, 2022, 05:07 PM
dang that was quick. lol

But thanks.  I also extended the campaign.  We are in florida for a week and i want to when we get back continue to market it as best i can and for as long as i can

at this point i'd like to just hit over $1000 in funds.
Whenever you get around to making a big trailer, here's a great resource: How to Make a Trailer -- Derek Lieu Creative - Game Trailer Editor (https://www.derek-lieu.com/start-here)

Lots of great guidelines.
Title: Re: My INDIEGOGO has launched!
Post by: nnodley on Jun 06, 2022, 07:02 PM
So i think i've decided to delay my game to the first of next year, and instead give like the first 30 or 40(maybe more) backers, who buy one of the perks with a game key, a beta demo to both test performance and functionalities. Send out beta by end of september. Get some feedback on what could be changed and what works and what doesn't.  Plus as we are finishing up our flip house i'm not able to do as much these last couple weeks and moving to first of year will both give me more time to get this to a state that i'm really happy with and to get it out of the crowded end of year with all the big hitters.

and im gonna just try and post on socials every day or every other day with the link and good hashtags to hopefully get it to catch on and incentivize people to want to beta test it.  We will see
Title: Re: My INDIEGOGO has launched!
Post by: Legend on Jun 06, 2022, 10:12 PM
So i think i've decided to delay my game to the first of next year, and instead give like the first 30 or 40(maybe more) backers, who buy one of the perks with a game key, a beta demo to both test performance and functionalities. Send out beta by end of september. Get some feedback on what could be changed and what works and what doesn't.  Plus as we are finishing up our flip house i'm not able to do as much these last couple weeks and moving to first of year will both give me more time to get this to a state that i'm really happy with and to get it out of the crowded end of year with all the big hitters.

and im gonna just try and post on socials every day or every other day with the link and good hashtags to hopefully get it to catch on and incentivize people to want to beta test it.  We will see
Sounds like a reasonable delay. What exactly is the current state of development?

Don't be afraid of giving out raw alpha demos too, maybe just including the first 15 minutes. Feedback at every stage of development is valuable.

Title: Re: My INDIEGOGO has launched!
Post by: nnodley on Jun 06, 2022, 10:15 PM
Sounds like a reasonable delay. What exactly is the current state of development?

Don't be afraid of giving out raw alpha demos too, maybe just including the first 15 minutes. Feedback at every stage of development is valuable.


Right now the environment layout is fully laid out and complete, except maybe minor tweaks possibly. But I don't have all the gameplay elements fully working and you can't currently play the game from start to finish.  Though once i get functionality in a working spot it will go quicker but its just getting it to that point.

you can walk around the island exactly like what will be in final game, but just don't really have anything to do yet.  I know how its all gonna work just have to build the functionality.

maybe i can do like first 20 to 30 backers get raw first 20 minutes just to test out performance and stuff by end of july.  Then let anyone who backs any of the game key tiers get a beta key.  Just to broaden the range of feedback. Send the beta out by end of september/first of october.

I might need to make a disclaimer that without full optimization and figuring out actual needed specs that a gtx 1070 is bare minimum since that is the oldest card range that will work with lumen.  Nanite should be compatible back to like 2014 gpu's so i should be good there.

i want to have a graphical option to use unreals screen space GI option to allow lower end cards to work.
Title: Re: My INDIEGOGO has launched!
Post by: Legend on Jun 08, 2022, 11:12 PM
(https://c1.iggcdn.com/indiegogo-media-prod-cld/image/upload/yzg9nx4lvnm9ru3rapnx.png)

I think I see something!
Title: Re: My INDIEGOGO has launched!
Post by: nnodley on Jun 08, 2022, 11:31 PM
(https://c1.iggcdn.com/indiegogo-media-prod-cld/image/upload/yzg9nx4lvnm9ru3rapnx.png)

I think I see something!
Lol nice catch
Title: Re: My INDIEGOGO has launched!
Post by: nnodley on Jun 15, 2022, 01:14 AM
Alright so. I guess my minimum for funding has to be $500. So what i'm thinking is let this campaign lapse without getting over the funding then it will all get refunded.  Then i can reset and attempt to use what i had in this campaign as a starter point and get much better trailers and info for a better second campaign in a couple months.  Since i delayed the game anyway it will be fine. 

Everything with this flip house we have is consuming everything to get it done so i just have no time to do anything else.  Trying to chill a little bit and play some games to unwind from the flip house.
Title: Re: My INDIEGOGO has launched!
Post by: Legend on Jun 15, 2022, 07:42 AM
Alright so. I guess my minimum for funding has to be $500. So what i'm thinking is let this campaign lapse without getting over the funding then it will all get refunded.  Then i can reset and attempt to use what i had in this campaign as a starter point and get much better trailers and info for a better second campaign in a couple months.  Since i delayed the game anyway it will be fine.  

Everything with this flip house we have is consuming everything to get it done so i just have no time to do anything else.  Trying to chill a little bit and play some games to unwind from the flip house.
That's rough with your house flip but smart to not burn yourself out.



What is your goal with crowdfunding? Are you needing financing to finish the game, or is it more about marketing and building an early community? Very few games seem to make money on indiegogo and while kickstarter tends to be better, it's super hard to reach your funding goal.

It might be wise to skip funding and focus directly on steam. When a page goes public for the first time the algorithm gives it a big traffic bump. Even without posting anywhere, the launch of a great looking steam page can drive a lot of wishlists. That's partially why it's so important to not publish your steam page until it is 100% ready.


In general though I'd really recommend just doing whatever makes it easiest to finish the game itself. That's hard enough on its own, especially when you can only work on it part time. Financing/marketing is important but spending a lot of time on it can be super demoralizing.
Title: Re: My INDIEGOGO has launched!
Post by: nnodley on Jun 15, 2022, 01:23 PM
That's rough with your house flip but smart to not burn yourself out.



What is your goal with crowdfunding? Are you needing financing to finish the game, or is it more about marketing and building an early community? Very few games seem to make money on indiegogo and while kickstarter tends to be better, it's super hard to reach your funding goal.

It might be wise to skip funding and focus directly on steam. When a page goes public for the first time the algorithm gives it a big traffic bump. Even without posting anywhere, the launch of a great looking steam page can drive a lot of wishlists. That's partially why it's so important to not publish your steam page until it is 100% ready.


In general though I'd really recommend just doing whatever makes it easiest to finish the game itself. That's hard enough on its own, especially when you can only work on it part time. Financing/marketing is important but spending a lot of time on it can be super demoralizing.
I don't necessarily need the funding. It was more just to help give some savings boost for future games or whatever. I definitely can finish the game without it.

That might be the best option. So I can focus on getting some good marketing materials and trailers for my steam page and get that up and just focus on sharing the game updates to social media and hopefully build my wishlists

But I was gonna use some of the funds to pay a couple people to help on some VFX and stuff. I have a guy who works at pipeworks in Oregon that offered some help.
Title: Re: My INDIEGOGO has launched!
Post by: Legend on Jun 15, 2022, 09:40 PM
I don't necessarily need the funding. It was more just to help give some savings boost for future games or whatever. I definitely can finish the game without it.

That might be the best option. So I can focus on getting some good marketing materials and trailers for my steam page and get that up and just focus on sharing the game updates to social media and hopefully build my wishlists

But I was gonna use some of the funds to pay a couple people to help on some VFX and stuff. I have a guy who works at pipeworks in Oregon that offered some help.
Probably the hardest thing is just not knowing how the game will do. Twisty Puzzle Simulator did great on PS4 yet flopped on Steam, which is the opposite of what I expected. Similarly I have done a lot of market research and have some sales expectations for Hapax, but I'm very aware I might end up making less than minimum wage.

Wishlists are imo a great pre-release metric to see how you're doing. They're not preorders and most never convert to sales, but you can at least start objectively analyzing performance. Game Hub followers are another helpful metric.  For example The Entropy Centre was revealed a while ago yet had a very good trailer at the Future Games Show. Look at those numbers skyrocket! https://steamdb.info/app/1730590/graphs/

For your game specifically, I think you really need to sell the "adventure." It looks gorgeous and people will see that immediately in screenshots and videos, but that alone won't sell the game. Compare these video game trailers:


Both are from the same dev team and neither is great, but the later does a better job selling the emotional feeling of why players should play the game.

Meanwhile this new trailer from different devs is a million times better.

I'm kinda cheating with this example since it uses a lot of voice acting beyond your scope probably, but it gets the point across. The Witness trailers are also good examples.



On a similar note, I think you're pretty close to having enough content ready to make a trailer. I spent a few minutes using the footage you've shared and while my "fan trailer" isn't that good, I think it only needs a few more item interactions/gameplay teases to be a solid showing.





Title: Re: My INDIEGOGO has launched!
Post by: nnodley on Jun 16, 2022, 01:38 AM
Probably the hardest thing is just not knowing how the game will do. Twisty Puzzle Simulator did great on PS4 yet flopped on Steam, which is the opposite of what I expected. Similarly I have done a lot of market research and have some sales expectations for Hapax, but I'm very aware I might end up making less than minimum wage.
This is one of the reasons why I'm trying to also build up a real estate investing business as well.  Flip houses and have investments just in case for some reason i can't get my stuff off the ground and making money.  But i also think if it so happens to all flop i should be able to get a position in the industry.

I hope i can get a good enough footing for this game and studio to keep it going and build something much larger.

I'm hoping the real estate market doesn't implode, but it would result in some cheaper properties to flip.  There's just too little inventory right now for anything to happen.  It will take months for inventory to potentially level out with demand.
Title: Re: My INDIEGOGO has launched!
Post by: nnodley on Jul 06, 2022, 12:51 PM
Campaign ended. And I do keep what I got so I'll try my best to deliver what I need to.  I'm not too concerned with the demos but I'll still try to get some out to anyone so I can get feedback on performance and stuff.

Since only have 6 real backers with a perk. One was just a donation
Title: Re: My INDIEGOGO has launched!
Post by: Legend on Jul 07, 2022, 06:36 PM
Campaign ended. And I do keep what I got so I'll try my best to deliver what I need to.  I'm not too concerned with the demos but I'll still try to get some out to anyone so I can get feedback on performance and stuff.

Since only have 6 real backers with a perk. One was just a donation
I'm looking forward to whatever you share next.