VizionEck

So I'm sure that most people won't agree with me on this. But I feel like Sony is messing up their messaging with the PS5. And MS is doing well.

Here's why I think so:

-MS announced their specs first.  And some of the more notable specs are better on the Series X. The graphical difference will be fairly small, but Xbox still has the numbers. 

-MS is promising a lot of backwards compatibility across their entire Xbox line up.  Sony has promised PS4 BC, but their messaging today has been confusing at best, dismal at worst. 

Polygon - PS5 will be backwards compatible with most of the top 100 PS4 games (https://www.polygon.com/2020/3/18/21185292/playstation-5-ps5-backward-compatible-ps4-pro)
http://www.pushsquare.com/news/2020/03/ps5s_backwards_compatibility_with_ps4_has_fans_baffled

-MS has already shown their box, their controller and some small features like quick resume. 


In practice, the differences will be much smaller, the PS5 will likely have a better price.  But right now it feels like MS's messaging is better. 

It doesn't help that Sony's first public discussion about PS5 was an hour long technical breakdown with very little for the consumer. 

None of this may matter in a year, but right now it's kind of concerning.  This doesn't feel like the same Sony that launched the PS4 (and it arguably isn't). 

2013 Sony started off the PS4 with some technical discussions, but they announced several games for it day 1.

Compared to their messaging in 2013 it feels like Sony is pivoting away from gamers and me towards developers.  While MS is pivoting towards gamers, and away from casuals.

Even MS's messaging on their specs feels like it's as much towards developers as gamers.  They're focusing on numbers instead of getting into the deep technical explanations.


I'll say it again, none of this will probably matter in a year. In the meantime though, confidence in Sony feels lower than it has been in several years.

I agree.

PS5 hardware is great. It is super awesome from my point of view.

The marketing however has been very poor.


I'm not a fan of Xbox Series X marketing but it looks great compared to PS5.

To recap.

2018 e3: Microsoft teases their next gen system. All hype and no info, but next gen systems are pure hype so it works.

2019 April: first PS5 Wired article. Not a lot of info and zero hype, but is fun to have the next gen system confirmed.

Xbox>PlayStation at this point.

2019 E3: another xsx teaser. Light on info but some fun hype.

2019 October: second Wired article. Bit more info but no hype beyond being about PS5.

Xbox > PlayStation for this round too.

2019 Dec: XSX reveal at the game awards. Awesome surprise with a next gen game showcase. Not enough info imo but great hype.

2019 Dec and 2020 Jan: Godfall randomly shown for PS5. Cool but not that big. PS5 logo at CES.

Xbox >>>>> PlayStation for this round.

2020 few days ago: xsx specs, a teardown, and some impressions. Not that cool but still a solid marketing beat.

2020 today: spec sheat and a odd long video talking about stuff that's hard for gamers to enjoy. Poor timing with xsx days before.

Xbox > PlayStation once again.


It's like Sony doesn't care about hype anymore. Every single PS5 thing so far has only used existing interest in the console. If we were talking about a next gen system by Google, very few would care.

There is still time to bring out the big guns but modern Sony isn't acting like PS4 Sony.

I agree.

PS5 hardware is great. It is super awesome from my point of view.

The marketing however has been very poor.

There is still time to bring out the big guns but modern Sony isn't acting like PS4 Sony.

2013-2016 Sony was probably the GOAT.  

They started PS4 with great games, and showed more just months later.
Honestly I'd say marketing wise:
PS4 >> Series X >> Xbox One >> PS5

People will forget all this once the full reveals with games happen. Sony are lacking so far but hopefully they start to get it right down the line.

2013-2016 Sony was probably the GOAT.  

They started PS4 with great games, and showed more just months later.
Honestly I'd say marketing wise:
PS4 >> Series X >> Xbox One >> PS5

XB1 > PS5 are you mad? XB1 was a disaster show when it was first revealed. PS5 has been confusing but it hasn't put off hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of customers due to ridiculous consumer policies.

What won PS4 last gen was being cheaper at launch and having better games, we'll have to see how that goes this time. XSX being 2 consoles mixes things up a bit. Microsoft could really mess it up if they get the messaging with that wrong.

People will forget all this once the full reveals with games happen. Sony are lacking so far but hopefully they start to get it right down the line.


XB1 > PS5 are you mad? XB1 was a disaster show when it was first revealed. PS5 has been confusing but it hasn't put off hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of customers due to ridiculous consumer policies.

What won PS4 last gen was being cheaper at launch and having better games, we'll have to see how that goes this time. XSX being 2 consoles mixes things up a bit. Microsoft could really mess it up if they get the messaging with that wrong.

strongly agree with both:

PS4 >>> Series X >PS5 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Xbox One 


as far as games goes,.. series x could have twice the flops and naught dog would still have a game that is better looking and better playing than anything any studio MS owns is capable of.

@Legend.  your timeline is very revisionist,..  when sony stealth dropped their ps5 announcement and confirmed an SSD and gave that spiderman load time demo a ton of hype was generated.   sony won that "phase" easily.  

XB1 > PS5 are you mad?

PS5>XBO overall.  

strongly agree with both:

PS4 >>> Series X >PS5 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Xbox One


as far as games goes,.. series x could have twice the flops and naught dog would still have a game that is better looking and better playing than anything any studio MS owns is capable of.

@Legend.  your timeline is very revisionist,..  when sony stealth dropped their ps5 announcement and confirmed an SSD and gave that spiderman load time demo a ton of hype was generated.   sony won that "phase" easily.  

They definitely won it and every round up till this week. I'm arguing however that their victories have been a result of PlayStation being such a strong brand at the moment, and not because their marketing was better.

Sony is just lowering expectations so that people will be blown away with the full reveal

Wow there's some bad journalism going rampant spreading fake news about PS5. Seems like most people think only 2.5% of PS4's library will be playable on PS5.

Sony could not have handled this worse, what a complete horror show. What on earth is their marketing department doing right now?

Sony could not have handled this worse, what a complete horror show. What on earth is their marketing department doing right now?

This is a big part of what I'm talking about.

There have been like 6 big threads on Era about BC. Just feels like Sony isn't paying attention to gamers right now. Just sticking to what they plan to say, and not making corrections or clarifications.  

http://www.pushsquare.com/news/2020/03/sonys_poor_ps5_backwards_compatibility_clarity_prompts_damning_headlines (http://www.pushsquare.com/news/2020/03/sonys_poor_ps5_backwards_compatibility_clarity_prompts_damning_headlines)

I feel Sony Hasnt been Marketing PS5 as good. While xbox are doing a better job so far. This wont matter much when next gen games are shown.

I'm not sure why they both took this approach to be honest. They showed off specs. But no games. Xb1 just showed one game. Around june we will see what these games have to offer

What do you all think will be the next move from Sony?

Will they follow this up with a big e3 style blowout and try to re-reveal the system?

Or will it be another small thing like they have been doing so far? Reveal one game, show the box, or something like that?



I think they need to follow this up with a killer game. If it's ready in a few weeks then just have it on its own, or wait a few months and have a big show.

The PS5 hype needs to be reset before other news will work imo. If they show the box it'll just feed into the current problems. Either it'll be too small and people will keep thinking it's weak or it'll be too large and people will mock it.

Demos of loading could also be nice. If they just put out copies of the two xsx videos that were 3x faster, it'd be great. Show the power.

I think they just need a E3 type show with amazing games and nobody will give a shame.

TLou2 with raytracing and 4k. New spiderman and horizon and will have people going crazy

A small thing they should be doing right now is giving an explanation about their BC.  

Have a big showing of games is the big thing they should be doing next.  End a conference showing off the PS5.  

With PS4, it felt like Sony's messaging was that it's a console for gamers and developers.

With PS5, it so far feels like it's a console just for developers.

Xbox One felt like it was for cable users.

Series X feels like a much worse version of PS4's.

This is a big part of what I'm talking about.

There have been like 6 big threads on Era about BC. Just feels like Sony isn't paying attention to gamers right now. Just sticking to what they plan to say, and not making corrections or clarifications. 

You're completely forgetting 2013 if you think this is worse than XB1 though. Sony is a disaster by letting bad rumours spread but this is stil before the first reveal. XB1 was a horror show resulting from its big reveal with games and MS continued to dig the hole with interviews like the famous "we have a console for those without internet, its called xbox 360" line from Don Mattrick.

Sony have a lot of time to recover here, first they need to release some PR which fixes things now. Then if they have a big conference with some mind blowing games that really show off PS5's advantages well they'll win everyone back.

PS5>XBO overall.  

Yo ^

You're completely forgetting 2013 if you think this is worse than XB1 though.

To be honest I'm a little bummed that Jim Ryan is running things and that Shu stepped down from WWS.

https://www.resetera.com/threads/ps4-bc-on-the-ps5-to-work-on-%E2%80%9Coverwhelming-majority%E2%80%9D-of-the-library-games-to-benefit-from-improved-frame-rates-and-resolutions.176258/

Took their time and its as most of us expected. Sony really messed up the messaging in that talk. Hopefully this news spreads so people know the truth.

Should have just came out and talked about how it is like PS4 Pro boost mode. Not every game worked perfectly but it's full bc.

A lot of people think that Sony's BC is poorly executed and requires a lot of work.  And MS's is magic where everything just magically works flawlessly.  

A lot of people think that Sony's BC is poorly executed and requires a lot of work.  And MS's is magic where everything just magically works flawlessly.  

Yeah, they're probably about the same. MS's is better though since all Xbox titles are covered while Sony's is just PS4.

Yeah, they're probably about the same. MS's is better though since all Xbox titles are covered while Sony's is just PS4.

600 Xbox + 360 games, all One games.

MS just started the process earlier it seems.

But it seems sooner rather than later all PS4 games will be backwards compatible.

600 Xbox + 360 games, all One games.

wrong

Correction: To date, we’ve spent over 100K hours testing your favorite games from Xbox One, including existing backward compatible 360 & OG Xbox games, on Xbox Series X. While we are still in the process of validating, we can confirm thousands of games will be playable at launch.

— Xbox (@Xbox) March 20, 2020

when asked directly they refused to say yes,. they have the same answer as ps5's clarifying statement of "thousands" of games.

series x BC is in the same boat as ps5.   most will work without changes,.. some will need changes.  testing is required to formally state compatibility.

wrong

Correction: To date, we’ve spent over 100K hours testing your favorite games from Xbox One, including existing backward compatible 360 & OG Xbox games, on Xbox Series X. While we are still in the process of validating, we can confirm thousands of games will be playable at launch.

— Xbox (@Xbox) March 20, 2020

when asked directly they refused to say yes,. they have the same answer as ps5's clarifying statement of "thousands" of games.

series x BC is in the same boat as ps5.   most will work without changes,.. some will need changes.  testing is required to formally state compatibility.

I'm aware.  

They're never going to promise every One game.  There's almost certainly going to be some random case that doesn't work as intended.  

And they tend to get sued over things like that.  

With MS's first gaming outing, here are my thoughts.

PS4: was stellar. They really made the system feel next gen right away by showing Killzone.  Their messaging from day 1 that the PS4 was a great system for devs and gamers. And they didn't just say it, they showed it.  The first PlayStation meeting basically felt like E3 and Road to PS5's equivalent combined.  They showed off the controller, the specs, their goals for the future and they showed off several major games.  Knack, Killzone, Driveclub, inFamous, Dreams, Deep Down and several other games were shown.  
Jonathon Blow, Quantic Dream, Square Enix, Capcom, Ubisoft, Blizzard were present at the show with either a game or a tech demo, etc.  
This all happened within 2 hours of even learning about the console's existence.  


XBO: their failings came down to two things. They basically doubled and even tripled down on their own backlash with the always online stuff.  
https://www.theverge.com/2013/4/5/4185938/adam-orth-speaks-on-required-internet-connection-for-durango-rumors (https://www.theverge.com/2013/4/5/4185938/adam-orth-speaks-on-required-internet-connection-for-durango-rumors)
They started with rumors.  People were already upset, and some at MS gave a ridiculous response.
(https://venturebeat.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/sweet-billy-adam-orth.jpg?w=558&strip=all?strip=all)

The existence of the Xbox One was practically preceded by controversy.  And MS doubled down on it with their announcement.
And even after their announce they continued to back it:
https://kotaku.com/xbox-one-does-require-internet-connection-cant-play-o-509164109 (https://kotaku.com/xbox-one-does-require-internet-connection-cant-play-o-509164109)
https://www.polygon.com/2013/5/21/4353538/xbox-one-perform-recurring-online-checks-even-for-offline-play (https://www.polygon.com/2013/5/21/4353538/xbox-one-perform-recurring-online-checks-even-for-offline-play)
https://www.wired.com/2013/05/xbox-one-analysis/ (https://www.wired.com/2013/05/xbox-one-analysis/)

Their second failing was not focusing on games.

I wouldn't be surprised if they actually spent almost as much time talking about the UI and OS features as they did talking about games.  Sports game and movies were a prevalent theme.  

---------------------------------------------------------------

PS5: their showing has still mostly been a few articles.  2 wired articles, a playstation article about the controller, and backwards compatibility.  Not much has changed here since writing up the thread.  Everything about the PS5, minus the controller, has been very developer focused.  From the Road to PS5 to the articles.  Gamers aren't sure what to expect here yet.  Sony is in a bizarre point where they seem like they are both behind MS, but also doing better in terms of attention.

XSX:  MS feels like they took some cues from Sony's PS4 roll out, but also missing out on some very important things.  And this was exemplified with their gaming rollout.  The most major thing they had was a game that was announced before the show.  Everything was pretty small.  

Although part of MS's issue is probably that a lot of their stuff is cross gen.  So their big games for the next year or two, are basically things we will see on Xbox One.  So they're awkwardly with the strongest next gen console, and yet they feel like they have nothing really to show for it.  


MS and Sony are both in pretty decent positions, they really just have to move forward with announcing some major games.  And on Sony's side especially, it's pretty clear that they should have a lot to show.  

Sony is only "behind" because MS has revealed way more (the box, a few games) and has been talking more. I expect Sony are going to have a big blowout which takes all the attention at some point. These consoles are coming out in November most likely, I think MS's steady drip feed strategy for the first half of the year is kind of pointless. A big blowout that's gets everyone excited and talking is the way to go, and there's no reason to do it this early.

I'm constantly baffled at people critising Sony's strategy. In what other industry would you talk about your new product so far before release? Last gen was already announced super early and people want it even earlier this gen. We've still got half a year til they launch, let's see what Sony do. I think if MS keep their once a month thing and none of it is that major then it could bite them in the dog.

Sony is only "behind" because MS has revealed way more (the box, a few games) and has been talking more. I expect Sony are going to have a big blowout which takes all the attention at some point. These consoles are coming out in November most likely, I think MS's steady drip feed strategy for the first half of the year is kind of pointless. A big blowout that's gets everyone excited and talking is the way to go, and there's no reason to do it this early.

I'm constantly baffled at people critising Sony's strategy. In what other industry would you talk about your new product so far before release? Last gen was already announced super early and people want it even earlier this gen. We've still got half a year til they launch, let's see what Sony do. I think if MS keep their once a month thing and none of it is that major then it could bite them in the dog.

PS3, Wii, and Wii u all showed up to 2 E3s before launching. 360, PS4, and XB1 are the only modern consoles that have been revealed and launched within the same year.

I would have loved if both PS5 and XsX just repeated PS4 and Xb1. Big events are so great as fans.

I feel like ever since the unreal engine reveal the tide has really turned against xbox.

the last couple of news cycles have been quite bad for xbox:
https://mp1st.com/news/microsoft-executive-says-xbox-series-x-will-learn-to-address-ps5-ssd-loading-screen-advantage (https://mp1st.com/news/microsoft-executive-says-xbox-series-x-will-learn-to-address-ps5-ssd-loading-screen-advantage)
https://www.vgchartz.com/article/443885/multiplatform-games-wont-take-advantage-of-faster-ps5-ssd-according-to-ori-dev/ (https://www.vgchartz.com/article/443885/multiplatform-games-wont-take-advantage-of-faster-ps5-ssd-according-to-ori-dev/)


we'll see if sony can keep hold of the ball after Thursday's reveal but if it is good sony will have a commanding lead of the next gen mind space.

I feel like ever since the unreal engine reveal the tide has really turned against xbox.

the last couple of news cycles have been quite bad for xbox:
https://mp1st.com/news/microsoft-executive-says-xbox-series-x-will-learn-to-address-ps5-ssd-loading-screen-advantage (https://mp1st.com/news/microsoft-executive-says-xbox-series-x-will-learn-to-address-ps5-ssd-loading-screen-advantage)
https://www.vgchartz.com/article/443885/multiplatform-games-wont-take-advantage-of-faster-ps5-ssd-according-to-ori-dev/ (https://www.vgchartz.com/article/443885/multiplatform-games-wont-take-advantage-of-faster-ps5-ssd-according-to-ori-dev/)


we'll see if sony can keep hold of the ball after Thursday's reveal but if it is good sony will have a commanding lead of the next gen mind space.

I can't wait to get deep dives into what is going on behind the scenes.

It has been so incredibly obvious that a big next gen showcase would set the tone and somehow Unreal Engine is the only one out at the moment.

*bump*

And MS was doing well for a bit.  

Things have changed quite a bit since before the unreal engine demo.  People knew games were going to look good.  

Sony had a good show.  

Some were concerned that the games didn't show a generational leap. And for those people, MS's show retroactively made Sony's better.


From a consumer standpoint I think Sony was ahead the whole time.  Partly because of PS4, and because people were curious.  
But it really felt like MS was doing things right.  

yeah.  watching the post show media this show was disastrous for Xbox, even worse than my initial thoughts. 

it is still no where near Xbox One bad but ms really needed to shine in order to cut into PlayStation's current lead.  they are not shining...

Indeed, xbox were doing better with the core audience which is a great first step but really needed this few months to make a dent into the bigger consumer space if they wanted to cut Sony's lead in HW. Instead what's happened is Sony has solidified the wider gaming space and seems to have won over the core audience as well and that's even before Sony's imminent next showcase.

Gamepass is looking to be a real winner for xbox but I think hardware-wise its becoming clear they'll lose more ground to Sony once again this upcoming gen. They still haven't announced lockheart, so if they nail that it could turn this around. But it seems doubtful right now.

Indeed, xbox were doing better with the core audience which is a great first step but really needed this few months to make a dent into the bigger consumer space if they wanted to cut Sony's lead in HW. Instead what's happened is Sony has solidified the wider gaming space and seems to have won over the core audience as well and that's even before Sony's imminent next showcase.

Gamepass is looking to be a real winner for xbox but I think hardware-wise its becoming clear they'll lose more ground to Sony once again this upcoming gen. They still haven't announced lockheart, so if they nail that it could turn this around. But it seems doubtful right now.

the problem of course being is they were winning the core audience with promises of "the most powerful console ever".   if you are going to claim that then they should be able to show off an impressive game.   that's why the narrative is turning on them soo bad right now.    they might as change their marketing to "the most wasted power in a console ever"..

Eurogamer: Microsoft still hasn't made the case for Xbox Series X | ResetEra (https://www.resetera.com/threads/eurogamer-microsoft-still-hasnt-made-the-case-for-xbox-series-x.254733/)

Quote

Let's get the obvious comparison out of the way, now that we can compare the summer's two great trailer showcases - separated this year by six weeks rather than the usual day and a half: Sony edged it.
 Neither PlayStation nor Xbox delivered a slam dunk when making the software case for their new hardware launches this year.  Click to expand... Click to shrink...  

Quote

Xbox's showcase last night was bookended by a gameplay demo of Halo Infinite - a very tangible prospect, to be fair, but one which you will be able to play on Xbox One and which was reportedly captured on PC - and a teaser reveal for a new Fable that, while cute, had little to add to the rumours of its existence that have circulated for years. Much of what filled the space between them was interesting, exciting or both, from the emotional lockdown trailer for Tetris Effect: Connected to the news that Fatshark was taking its trademark co-op chaos into the Warhammer 40K realm with Darktide. But most of it was frustratingly opaque.  Click to expand... Click to shrink...  

Quote

Stalker 2's debut trailer was, it turned out, target footage. Forza Motorsport was present as a graphics demo with an ominous note that it was "early in development". Rare's Everwild, on second showing, remained as mysterious as it is lovely to behold. Xbox Studios prospects State of Decay 3 and Avowed got CG teasers only. There was, overall, a striking lack of gameplay footage - and, astonishingly, we still can't be sure that we have seen a game running on Xbox Series X.  Click to expand... Click to shrink...  

Quote

Bearing in mind Halo Infinite's underwhelming looks, all of a sudden Xbox's pro-cross-gen stance sounds less like a strategy than like a rationale to explain away a last-gen game that got itself delayed into the launch window for the next console, and thus had to release on both - Zelda: Breath of the Wild style. (To be fair, we should note that PlayStation 5's launch game, Spider-man: Miles Morales, is an update and extension of a PS4 hit. Maybe you just can't launch with a proper generational exclusive in 2020.) But then, this view doesn't square with developer 343's assertion that Halo Infinite is a "platform for the future" that should last 10 years without getting a traditional sequel.  Click to expand... Click to shrink...  

Quote

It is hard to believe that, as a new console generation approaches, Microsoft is once again fluffing its lines. The hardware reveal went well - unsurprisingly, since it had been so carefully rehearsed with Xbox One X a couple of years previously. But we have yet to see anything that shows those impressive stats in action, and corporate strategy seems once again to be getting in the way of what players want to see and hear.  Click to expand... Click to shrink...  

Quote

This is not to say that the nightmare of 2013's Xbox One launch is about to be repeated. Then, a fuzzy Trojan-horse strategy about media convergence and owning the living room seemed to have little to do with video games. Now, Microsoft's vision for the future gaming is both far-sighted and persuasive, with its emphasis on streaming technology, device agnosticism and reaching the largest possible addressable audience.  Click to expand... Click to shrink...  

Quote

If Satya Nadella's company isn't doing well at persuading us to buy consoles and games, that's probably because it doesn't really want to. What it wants to sell us is Game Pass subscriptions.  Click to expand... Click to shrink...  

Quote

And yet, 2013 still has an important lesson to teach us. Microsoft fluffed it so hard then because it thought a pitch to the core gaming audience no longer mattered. It was wrong. This audience of tastemakers is still the hub the wider gaming community revolves around, and it really matters what excites them - what excites us. If your games don't thrill us, if your pitch seems driven by theory rather than passion, you are in trouble. Xbox still has work to do.  Click to expand... Click to shrink...  

More here: https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2020-07-24-microsoft-still-hasnt-made-the-case-for-xbox-series-x

 I would say I'd have to agree with this assessment.

 Related article: We should talk about how Halo Infinite looks (https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2020-07-24-we-should-talk-about-how-halo-infinite-looks)  

[/size]

It feels like it switched again.  Kind of.  

Sony definitely has the momentum for the next year.  
But Bethesda + XSS has brought a lot of positive feeling for MS.  To the point that people are asking how Sony can compete anymore if MS is buying massive publishers.
I don't think Sony needs to buy a massive publisher to even out the score, but considering the outlook right now it does feel like Sony needs to do something.  

It feels like it switched again.  Kind of.  

Sony definitely has the momentum for the next year.  
But Bethesda + XSS has brought a lot of positive feeling for MS.  To the point that people are asking how Sony can compete anymore if MS is buying massive publishers.
I don't think Sony needs to buy a massive publisher to even out the score, but considering the outlook right now it does feel like Sony needs to do something.  

agreed.  i would have said ps5 was waay ahead of xbox only a few days ago but that bethesda acquisition was a massive announcement.  soo much fear they will do it again and keep the games off of ps5.   exactly what MS wants,.. a fearful sony customer base.

MS let Sony have their time enough that PS5 is going to set off like a rocket in sales but it feels like compared to the status quo they're ahead anyway. They definitely feel ahead in terms of messaging and blows in the build up to launch right now but its too late to have an impact.

Stuff like this definitely doesn't help: https://www.resetera.com/threads/sony-confirms-no-free-ps5-upgrade-for-ps4-spider-man-owners.293285/

fudgy lol sony, they're so overconfident and complacent, they don't give two nuggets about how much better value xbox are offering customers.

Stuff like this definitely doesn't help: https://www.resetera.com/threads/sony-confirms-no-free-ps5-upgrade-for-ps4-spider-man-owners.293285/

fudgy lol sony, they're so overconfident and complacent, they don't give two nuggets about how much better value xbox are offering customers.

you really sound like you've been turned into an xbox fanboy.   i'm not sure we can still be friends.  the only thing worse is if you told me you were a republican..  

you really sound like you've been turned into an xbox fanboy.   i'm not sure we can still be friends.  the only thing worse is if you told me you were a republican..  

Yeah of course man Trump 2048 lets do it #maga #fascismisactuallyagoodthing #trumpshouldjustbeadictatoritwouldbebetterforallofus #howcanclimatechangeberealwhenitfeltcoldtoday

Anyway yeah I love playing games on consoles, its so much better than PC. I'll always buy my AAA games on console for as long as they exist and I'll always have at least one of the big consoles. I have a playstation because PS4 was a vastly better offering than XB1 and I love playstation games far more than xbox games.

Right now we still know next to nothing about the next gen consoles in terms of UI and features so its hard to say, but xbox is a much more compelling offering this gen and it seems like they will compete on games soon. I've been okay with playing the few xbox games I want on PC but if they start making a lot more I'll probably prefer to get a series X. And if series X does indeed prove to be a better console overall, as its looking right now, that means PS5 will be relegated to being just my playstation games machine.

Yeah of course man Trump 2048 lets do it #maga #fascismisactuallyagoodthing #trumpshouldjustbeadictatoritwouldbebetterforallofus #howcanclimatechangeberealwhenitfeltcoldtoday

Anyway yeah I love playing games on consoles, its so much better than PC. I'll always buy my AAA games on console for as long as they exist and I'll always have at least one of the big consoles. I have a playstation because PS4 was a vastly better offering than XB1 and I love playstation games far more than xbox games.

Right now we still know next to nothing about the next gen consoles in terms of UI and features so its hard to say, but xbox is a much more compelling offering this gen and it seems like they will compete on games soon. I've been okay with playing the few xbox games I want on PC but if they start making a lot more I'll probably prefer to get a series X. And if series X does indeed prove to be a better console overall, as its looking right now, that means PS5 will be relegated to being just my playstation games machine.

(https://i.redd.it/wnlil02w1doz.jpg)

Stuff like this definitely doesn't help: https://www.resetera.com/threads/sony-confirms-no-free-ps5-upgrade-for-ps4-spider-man-owners.293285/

fudgy lol sony, they're so overconfident and complacent, they don't give two nuggets about how much better value xbox are offering customers.

I wanna see how the remaster looks first. On paper it sounds like they've put a lot of work into it to upgrade the game.

And if series X does indeed prove to be a better console overall, as its looking right now, that means PS5 will be relegated to being just my playstation games machine.

I'm in the same boat, but mostly because the only games I'll actually buy will be playstation exclusives.

Series X will be amazing for all my old xbox and xbox 360 discs, and for gamepass whenever I want to subscribe.

PS5 will be amazing for all my old PS4 games, PS+, and the rare game that I buy.

I'm in the same boat, but mostly because the only games I'll actually buy will be playstation exclusives.

Series X will be amazing for all my old xbox and xbox 360 discs, and for gamepass whenever I want to subscribe.

PS5 will be amazing for all my old PS4 games, PS+, and the rare game that I buy.

rare is on xbox and gamepass..

rare is on xbox and gamepass..

it's all in the set-up.   it was too perfect to not say it.  xD

I wanna see how the remaster looks first. On paper it sounds like they've put a lot of work into it to upgrade the game.

Yeah for sure but the optics of this are so terrible. Even a cheap upgrade option stating the dev work gone into significant improvements would be much better.

Yeah for sure but the optics of this are so terrible. Even a cheap upgrade option stating the dev work gone into significant improvements would be much better.

I'm assuming a standalone option might come later. Even though I'm questioning how big the market for people who are not going to buy Miles Morales but who would buy the PS5 upgrade for Spider-Man 2018 by itself actually is.

Twitter racists who don't want to play a black Spider-Man?

I'm assuming a standalone option might come later. Even though I'm questioning how big the market for people who are not going to buy Miles Morales but who would buy the PS5 upgrade for Spider-Man 2018 by itself actually is.

Twitter racists who don't want to play a black Spider-Man?

Basically yeah. Spidey remastered is essentially a $20 upgrade for Miles owners (jstevenson confirmed that if you have the PS4 or PS5 version of the game and play it on PS5 there will be an option to buy Spidey remastered for $20). I think that should also be expanded to original Spidey owners too and perhaps made only $10 or free if people own all DLCs.

Basically yeah. Spidey remastered is essentially a $20 upgrade for Miles owners (jstevenson confirmed that if you have the PS4 or PS5 version of the game and play it on PS5 there will be an option to buy Spidey remastered for $20). I think that should also be expanded to original Spidey owners too and perhaps made only $10 or free if people own all DLCs.

There's something called goodwill.  Sony has none of that.   It technically won't cost them anything to upgrade Spider-man for previous consumers.  I mean, at least give it to those who bought the game digitally.  I have no incentive to buy a PS5 when I can get Miles and Horizon on PS4 and Sony can't even be arsed to give me an upgrade as a "Here, you bought a PS5, here's what an upgrade of your Spider-man will be like on new hardware"

There's something called goodwill.  Sony has none of that.   It technically won't cost them anything to upgrade Spider-man for previous consumers.  I mean, at least give it to those who bought the game digitally.  I have no incentive to buy a PS5 when I can get Miles and Horizon on PS4 and Sony can't even be arsed to give me an upgrade as a "Here, you bought a PS5, here's what an upgrade of your Spider-man will be like on new hardware"

18 free ps4 games adds no good will at all?   99% BC with ps4 adds no good will at all?

boy how fast have expectations changed from last gen. previously no games moved forward from gen to gen and suddenly it's not even good enough to have full BC with your last gen games library,.. you're games library needs to be actively updated every gen to leverage the new hardware for free.

i'm getting really worried about ps5 at this point.  seems as if anything less than free ps studio games for life and sony is a bad guy.  MS is clearly going to monopolize the entire video game industry by the time next gen starts between acquisitions and kamikaze policies.  let's see how much a pro-consumer nice guy MS will be once they eliminate the competition..

18 free ps4 games adds no good will at all?   99% BC with ps4 adds no good will at all?

boy how fast have expectations changed from last gen. it's no longer enough to continue playing your games library,.. you're games library needs to be actively updated every gen to leverage the new hardware for free.

i'm getting really worried about ps5 at this point.  seems as if anything less than free ps studio games for life and sony is a bad guy.  MS is clearly going to monopolize the entire video game industry by the time next gen starts between acquisitions and kamikaze policies.  let's see how much a pro-consumer nice guy MS will be once they eliminate the competition..

Yeah I was gonna say, Sony have a lot of goodwill stuff with PS+ collection, BC, free upgrades for new games like Spidey, sackboy and Horizon. Its just hard to compete with MS right now due to their game pass push and everything that comes with it. MS want smooth transitions for people to keep subbing and access to all their games. They have lots of "free" upgrades because those games are on game pass for the new consoles and they want them to work good. They are allowing the old controller to work on new gen mainly because they haven't innovated their controller much and its not a priority for them to push new controller features. Outside of that its just the value of game pass itself and that's somewhat subjective.

Sony are just doing their own thing and not countering MS. The problem is they are doing it badly. PR and communication has been dire this year, I am wondering what on earth has happened at Sony to cause this. If they had much better pushes towards focusing on their positive stuff and keeping a steady stream of positive info rather than this radio silence it would feel a lot better. The price rise is the only really bad thing they've done imo and even then I'm okay with a price rise I just wish regional pricing was kinder. The price rise only stings so much in the UK because retailers have sold games for so cheap for so long, games were supposed to be £60 for ages, as they all were on the PS store anyway.

It kind of dawned on me that we just had games like Avengers selling 70% digital in the UK when it was £60 digital and widely available at £45 retail. I guess most people don't really care about prices so much and Sony will very much get away with £70 just fine.

Yeah I was gonna say, Sony have a lot of goodwill stuff with PS+ collection, BC, free upgrades for new games like Spidey, sackboy and Horizon. Its just hard to compete with MS right now due to their game pass push and everything that comes with it. MS want smooth transitions for people to keep subbing and access to all their games. They have lots of "free" upgrades because those games are on game pass for the new consoles and they want them to work good. They are allowing the old controller to work on new gen mainly because they haven't innovated their controller much and its not a priority for them to push new controller features. Outside of that its just the value of game pass itself and that's somewhat subjective.

Sony are just doing their own thing and not countering MS. The problem is they are doing it badly. PR and communication has been dire this year, I am wondering what on earth has happened at Sony to cause this. If they had much better pushes towards focusing on their positive stuff and keeping a steady stream of positive info rather than this radio silence it would feel a lot better. The price rise is the only really bad thing they've done imo and even then I'm okay with a price rise I just wish regional pricing was kinder. The price rise only stings so much in the UK because retailers have sold games for so cheap for so long, games were supposed to be £60 for ages, as they all were on the PS store anyway.

It kind of dawned on me that we just had games like Avengers selling 70% digital in the UK when it was £60 digital and widely available at £45 retail. I guess most people don't really care about prices so much and Sony will very much get away with £70 just fine.

with respect to the price rise thing i think you need to acknowledge 2 things:

1. it's not just sony.  we are seeing most of the 3rd party developers doing the price rise thing as well.  you want next gen CoD,.. $70.  you want next gen 2k21,.. $70.  

2. ms is selling it like "smart delivery" is for all of the games on their store.  ...or even just most of them.   smart delivery requires the game's publisher to opt-in and so far outside of MS first party participation is low.  it's low for a reason,.. graphical upgrades to games isn't free and the industry as a whole is not healthy enough to absorb those costs as standard practice.

the industry as a whole is reeling at the increasing cost of game development and trying to find ways to make it cost effective.   currently hits have huge profits but duds have massive losses.  and in comes MS,.. they've been clear to the world that gamepass is losing them money right now.   i forget the name but right now MS is doing that dirty business practice where you run a huge loss knowing the competition cannot afford to price match in order to kill the competition so that once the market is free of competition you can charge any price you want.

with respect to the price rise thing i think you need to acknowledge 2 things:

1. it's not just sony.  we are seeing most of the 3rd party developers doing the price rise thing as well.  you want next gen CoD,.. $70.  you want next gen 2k21,.. $70. 

2. ms is selling it like "smart delivery" is for all of the games on their store.  ...or even just most of them.   smart delivery requires the game's publisher to opt-in and so far outside of MS first party participation is low.  it's low for a reason,.. graphical upgrades to games isn't free and the industry as a whole is not healthy enough to absorb those costs as standard practice.

the industry as a whole is reeling at the increasing cost of game development and trying to find ways to make it cost effective.   currently hits have huge profits but duds have massive losses.  and in comes MS,.. they've been clear to the world that gamepass is losing them money right now.   i forget the name but right now MS is doing that dirty business practice where you run a huge loss knowing the competition cannot afford to price match in order to kill the competition so that once the market is free of competition you can charge any price you want.

Yeah that's why I'm not mad at Sony specifically for the price rise, its just that they've done it and MS haven't and they're the two platform holders. Then again we don't know that MS haven't done it as they have no first party games releasing on next gen any time soon.

I didn't mean smart delivery, that's just the same thing as a free upgrade and every game supporting smart delivery is supporting free upgrade on playstation. I meant microsoft's own games with them upgrading their older games to next gen for free. But I doubt any of the upgrades are as big as Spidey and couldn't be sold as a remaster.

Only Microsoft could be doing game pass right now on the scale they are doing. Pretty much every sub service starts with a loss for years and requires a huge investment to go into black. A lot of sub models still aren't making money like Spotify. Game pass will only work if it rapidly expands its user base and to do that it needs big risky investment which nobody can compete with. Its the nature of the beast. That being said, us consumers don't really care about that side of things, why should I care that its losing money? I'm just enjoying the value it offers right now.

with respect to the price rise thing i think you need to acknowledge 2 things:

1. it's not just sony.  we are seeing most of the 3rd party developers doing the price rise thing as well.  you want next gen CoD,.. $70.  you want next gen 2k21,.. $70.  

2. ms is selling it like "smart delivery" is for all of the games on their store.  ...or even just most of them.   smart delivery requires the game's publisher to opt-in and so far outside of MS first party participation is low.  it's low for a reason,.. graphical upgrades to games isn't free and the industry as a whole is not healthy enough to absorb those costs as standard practice.

the industry as a whole is reeling at the increasing cost of game development and trying to find ways to make it cost effective.   currently hits have huge profits but duds have massive losses.  and in comes MS,.. they've been clear to the world that gamepass is losing them money right now.   i forget the name but right now MS is doing that dirty business practice where you run a huge loss knowing the competition cannot afford to price match in order to kill the competition so that once the market is free of competition you can charge any price you want.

Predatory pricing?

Yeah that's why I'm not mad at Sony specifically for the price rise, its just that they've done it and MS haven't and they're the two platform holders. Then again we don't know that MS haven't done it as they have no first party games releasing on next gen any time soon.

I didn't mean smart delivery, that's just the same thing as a free upgrade and every game supporting smart delivery is supporting free upgrade on playstation. I meant microsoft's own games with them upgrading their older games to next gen for free. But I doubt any of the upgrades are as big as Spidey and couldn't be sold as a remaster.

Only Microsoft could be doing game pass right now on the scale they are doing. Pretty much every sub service starts with a loss for years and requires a huge investment to go into black. A lot of sub models still aren't making money like Spotify. Game pass will only work if it rapidly expands its user base and to do that it needs big risky investment which nobody can compete with. Its the nature of the beast. That being said, us consumers don't really care about that side of things, why should I care that its losing money? I'm just enjoying the value it offers right now.

because a lack of competition means complacency.   

trust me,.. when ms kills or acquires the entire competition there will be no such thing as a true AAA game anymore.  the nature of a subscription service demands regular content and games will become more and more episodic and lower and lower ambition.   Gow, Horizon, TLoU are just not cost effective in a subscription model because it cost hundreds of millions to make and people finish it in 10 - 20 hours.  you'll see more and more games like destiny, halo infinite, fallout 76, sea of thieves, fortnight where it's a GaaS style or games like battletoads, ori, grounded where development costs are tiny.

i put halo infinite in italics because i really think it represents the future you have to look forward to if MS wins.  halo used to be a massive system selling franchise.   this is what you get when the business priorities shift from system seller to subscription seller:

Predatory pricing?

yes yes, that was the phrase i was looking for.

i think ms can get away with it here because it would be incredibly difficult to proof in court because what they are selling isn't 1:1 with what the rest of the industry is selling.  but they are massively devaluing video games right now in a way that will kill the competition.  

18 free ps4 games adds no good will at all?   99% BC with ps4 adds no good will at all?

boy how fast have expectations changed from last gen. previously no games moved forward from gen to gen and suddenly it's not even good enough to have full BC with your last gen games library,.. you're games library needs to be actively updated every gen to leverage the new hardware for free.

i'm getting really worried about ps5 at this point.  seems as if anything less than free ps studio games for life and sony is a bad guy.  MS is clearly going to monopolize the entire video game industry by the time next gen starts between acquisitions and kamikaze policies.  let's see how much a pro-consumer nice guy MS will be once they eliminate the competition..

It's a give a mouse a cookie situation.

Without bc, all the crossbuy games on ps4 were nice and other ports were just regular ports.

With bc and ps4 pro though, players expect games to run on newer hardware and look better for free. No one paid for ps4 pro patches, so why would they pay for ps5 patches?

I think the big problem is just that next gen games look a lot like current gen games atm. PS5 feels like a ps4 pro pro at this point because so little of next gen has been shown. Come nov with head to head face offs, that could change.

It's a give a mouse a cookie situation.

Without bc, all the crossbuy games on ps4 were nice and other ports were just regular ports.

With bc and ps4 pro though, players expect games to run on newer hardware and look better for free. No one paid for ps4 pro patches, so why would they pay for ps5 patches?

I think the big problem is just that next gen games look a lot like current gen games atm. PS5 feels like a ps4 pro pro at this point because so little of next gen has been shown. Come nov with head to head face offs, that could change.

when the "patch" is just higher render resolutions and framerates i think free is a fair expectation. 

unless i'm mistaken spiderman remastered isn't that.   it's the original spiderman game in the entirely reworked city they made for spiderman Miles Morales with higher detailed assets, improved lighting including ray tracing, increased city density, 3D audio, haptic feedback, and of course higher render resolutions and framerates.

https://www.gamespot.com/articles/heres-how-spider-man-remastered-is-improved-on-ps5/1100-6482503/ (https://www.gamespot.com/articles/heres-how-spider-man-remastered-is-improved-on-ps5/1100-6482503/)


the original spider man will run on ps5 via BC and while sony has been less clear on what "boost mode" means here i think it basically means higher render resolutions and frame rates.   that's a free "upgrade" there.

when the "patch" is just higher render resolutions and framerates i think free is a fair expectation.  

unless i'm mistaken spiderman remastered isn't that.   it's the original spiderman game in the entirely reworked city they made for spiderman Miles Morales with higher detailed assets, improved lighting including ray tracing, increased city density, 3D audio, haptic feedback, and of course higher render resolutions and framerates.

https://www.gamespot.com/articles/heres-how-spider-man-remastered-is-improved-on-ps5/1100-6482503/ (https://www.gamespot.com/articles/heres-how-spider-man-remastered-is-improved-on-ps5/1100-6482503/)


the original spider man will run on ps5 via BC and while sony has been less clear on what "boost mode" means here i think it basically means higher render resolutions and frame rates.   that's a free "upgrade" there.

That's just marketing talk until people can see it for themselves.

18 free ps4 games adds no good will at all?   99% BC with ps4 adds no good will at all?

boy how fast have expectations changed from last gen. previously no games moved forward from gen to gen and suddenly it's not even good enough to have full BC with your last gen games library,.. you're games library needs to be actively updated every gen to leverage the new hardware for free.

i'm getting really worried about ps5 at this point.  seems as if anything less than free ps studio games for life and sony is a bad guy.  MS is clearly going to monopolize the entire video game industry by the time next gen starts between acquisitions and kamikaze policies.  let's see how much a pro-consumer nice guy MS will be once they eliminate the competition..

PS4 backwards compatibility was going to happen because Jim Ryan wants people to switch to the PS5 as fast as possible and it would have happened whether they down-clocked the PS5 to be a PS4 or not.  Where's the rest?   "Previously no games moved forward", oh yes they did.  PS2 played nearly every PSX game.  PS3 played nearly every PS2 and PSX games.  PS Vita played quite a bit of PSP games (Digital Licensing screwing things up).  Now that the PS5 is powerful enough to emulate all the previous systems, are there any plans?  Nope.  Hell Sony didn't even let me bring my PS2 purchases from PS3 to PS4, despite them doing that for the PSP, PSVita and PS3.  And  other than writing an emulator for previous gens (Which isn't as time consuming as you think), the game's don't need to be updated. We'd actually have a lot more PS2 games on PS4 if Sony didn't force the trophies (The high resolution is a byproduct of using a hardware oriented emulator).

Though with that all said; if they're touching Spider-man's assets and adding in HDR, then yes, go ahead and charge, that's fair.  If they're just switching the resolution and making some minor changes to adjust for the SSD, screw em.  But at the same time Microsoft is adding HDR to all their previous gens game automagically.  Sony is charging you for what Microsoft is doing for free for all their last gen games (Not to mention their superior BC program).

PS4 backwards compatibility was going to happen because Jim Ryan wants people to switch to the PS5 as fast as possible and it would have happened whether they down-clocked the PS5 to be a PS4 or not.  Where's the rest?  "Previously no games moved forward", oh yes they did.  PS2 played nearly every PSX game.  PS3 played nearly every PS2 and PSX games.  PS Vita played quite a bit of PSP games (Digital Licensing screwing things up).  Now that the PS5 is powerful enough to emulate all the previous systems, are there any plans?  Nope.  Hell Sony didn't even let me bring my PS2 purchases from PS3 to PS4, despite them doing that for the PSP, PSVita and PS3.  And  other than writing an emulator for previous gens (Which isn't as time consuming as you think), the game's don't need to be updated. We'd actually have a lot more PS2 games on PS4 if Sony didn't force the trophies (The high resolution is a byproduct of using a hardware oriented emulator).

Though with that all said; if they're touching Spider-man's assets and adding in HDR, then yes, go ahead and charge, that's fair.  If they're just switching the resolution and making some minor changes to adjust for the SSD, screw em.  But at the same time Microsoft is adding HDR to all their previous gens game automagically.  Sony is charging you for what Microsoft is doing for free for all their last gen games (Not to mention their superior BC program).

The BC thing is good but its nothing special really. PS5 boost mode is great though depending on how it works. That's beyond the expected. The PS+ collection is a nice bonus too.

The last paragraph is wrong though. MS are applying next gen patches because the games are in game pass. They're making them run at 4k60/120 (they already all had HDR pretty much) some of them are running ray tracing because its hardware based so easy to add. Playstation are doing free upgrades for the 3 cross gen games and we don't know about any others, of course all PS4 games will work in BC and most will support boost mode for a free upgrade of sorts. Spidey remastered is way beyond the usual next gen patch that is being given for free:

The remaster for the PS5 is no simple up-res, as many of the game's art assets have been completely updated to take advantage of the PS5 console's horsepower. You'll see better-looking characters with improved skin, eyes, hair, and facial animation (including our new, next-generation Peter Parker). You'll also see ray-traced reflections and ambient shadows, improved lighting, more pedestrians and vehicles stretching further into the distance, and the same optional performance mode offered on Marvel's Spider-Man: Miles Morales, allowing you to finally play the game at a targeted 60fps frame rate. We'll be supporting near-instant loading, 3D audio, and the DualSense controller's haptic feedback. Lastly we're adding three amazing new Spider-Man suits, new photo mode features, and even new trophies for those of you looking to Platinum the game all over again.

from the PS blog (https://blog.playstation.com/2020/09/16/see-the-marvels-spider-man-miles-morales-new-gameplay-demo/)

I wouldn't go so far as to say sony are ahead again after the bethesda aquisition but sony hasn't been so stingy withe the info lately:
spiderman remastered details
sackboy trailer
demon souls trailer
the Japanese youtubers footage
the hardware teardown. 
trophies update

its making sony feel relevant again. I actually feel optimistic we"ll get details on the OS soon via ps blog,.. probably over 3-4 posts detailing different aspects 

I wouldn't go so far as to say sony are ahead again after the bethesda aquisition but sony hasn't been so stingy withe the info lately:
spiderman remastered details
sackboy trailer
demon souls trailer
the Japanese youtubers footage
the hardware teardown.
trophies update

its making sony feel relevant again. I actually feel optimistic we"ll get details on the OS soon via ps blog,.. probably over 3-4 posts detailing different aspects

For sure.

Think we will see UI in the next 2 weeks.

For sure.

Think we will see UI in the next 2 weeks.

I'm thinking next week. 

I wouldn't go so far as to say sony are ahead again after the bethesda aquisition but sony hasn't been so stingy withe the info lately:
spiderman remastered details
sackboy trailer
demon souls trailer
the Japanese youtubers footage
the hardware teardown.
trophies update

its making sony feel relevant again. I actually feel optimistic we"ll get details on the OS soon via ps blog,.. probably over 3-4 posts detailing different aspects

Did I miss the DS trailer?

Did I miss the DS trailer?

No, there wasn't one. There was some destruction allstars info though.

Did I miss the DS trailer?

it was in Sony's second showcase with a follow up blog post containing more details.  it was a gameplay trailer so I'm counting it.

it was in Sony's second showcase with a follow up blog post containing more details.  it was a gameplay trailer so I'm counting it.

Why did you include that from the showcase and nothing else? Kinda weird!

Why did you include that from the showcase and nothing else? Kinda weird!

this isn't really the point. the point is it no longer feels as if sony is stingy about next gen details.  my intent was not to get into a list war,.. just name some of the reasons it feels different. 

this isn't really the point. the point is it no longer feels as if sony is stingy about next gen details.  my intent was not to get into a list war,.. just name some of the reasons it feels different.

Sure but you said since the bethesda thing and then made a list of stuff in the last week then randomly threw in one thing from the few weeks old showcase, it confused a couple of us.

add to the list a commitment to BC that above expectations!

https://blog.playstation.com/2020/10/09/ps4-games-on-ps5-your-top-questions-answered/

add to the list a commitment to BC that above expectations!

https://blog.playstation.com/2020/10/09/ps4-games-on-ps5-your-top-questions-answered/

But I thought it would only include 200 games

But I thought it would only include 200 games

you did.  and your expectations have been exceeded.   

Sony are definitely ahead again for now in terms of marketing and hype. It feels like for the time that's mattered Sony has been ahead for most of it.

When this thread was made it was still so early, people don't really care at that point as there's still so much of this gen left. Sony's June event was the first huge thing that really kicked off the next gen hype cycle and Xbox have barely been ahead in that time, probably just for a few weeks last month.

Both companies have done well this time, no big blunders and no big disadvantage for either. It's going to come down to stock and games for the first couple years of sales, unlike last gen when PS4 had a huge opening lead due to all the known reasons.

no ps blog post yesterday detailing important details of ps5.   you're losing me sony..

It feels like it's happening again.  

Sony shutting down the PS3/PSP/PSV stores, which has reaffirmed that MS has the better plan for backwards compatibility, MLB the Show going to Gamepass.  I think it's fairly expected that the stores got shut down. And it makes sense that MLB the show is happening.  It's not really Sony's IP.  

It doesn't really feel like Sony is making really bad decisions, it just feels like MS is making unprecedented decisions.  
I can't find the tweet at the moment, but there was a tweet that said MS is making hell freeze over.  Buying Zenimax, and this, kind of feel like hell freezing over kind of moves.  

And there's also Japan Studio.  I think it's understandable, but it does feel like a bad decision.  

MS is expanding and diversifying into other countries and genres, they're pushing value and Gamepass, they're improving backwards compatibility.

I think the biggest issue though is that Sony is so slow to respond to criticism.  Even when nothing is actually wrong, the best case scenario seems to be a blog post written days afterwards.  We saw this with the BC issue last year.  There was the Ray tracing issue the year before.  Where it was like 6 months for Sony to respond that yes, when we said there was ray tracing, we meant there was hardware acceleration for ray tracing.  

I think Sony is still winning on the games front at least for me.  But everything outside of that.  It feels like MS is several steps ahead of them, and it feels like Sony would rather step back instead of forward.

yeah, what Pi said.

sony (to-date) is massively better than MS on actually making games.  ...and as nintendo shows content is king.  you can be a litteral shitshow on everything else but if your games are the games people want to play then you'll be a market leader.

all the same,.. ms is killing it on the "everthing else" perspective and if all of the aquisitions aren't mismanage xbox could take that advantage away from sony.  i really do perfer sony right now but i really fear they are going to lose everything this gen.   i could honestly see MS just buying out all of sony's studio/backlog in 10 years when sony realizes that's all they can do with playstation...

Yeah I'm glad I own a series x.

Not because PS5 is bad, but this gen isn't clear cut like last.

Yeah... Sony is releasing more games, Sony is expanding their studios and IPs at a successful and steady pace. MS has yet to prove they can manage studios properly. In fact, 3 gens in, and they to go on a buying spree worth billions to be able to come close to Sony or Nintendo with their first party. Their brand is stronger, their market share is stronger, their profits are more, and they are established in more countries than xbox, specially in the middle East and Asia, which are becoming bigger and bigger markets.

MS's buying spree can hurt Sony, like kitler said before they arent adding games to themselves, but taking them away from Sony. But Sony needs to just continue to expand their first party and IPs. They need to be a bit more aggressive now since MS bought Bethesda, but they dont need to panic. Thinking Playstation will be dead in 10 years is just silly to me, its a core pillar for Sony now, who are making billions each year too, and will spend a lot to grow and support the brand if they feel the need too

Well I was reading the similar Era thread and saw someone post this video:



I think its interesting because you'd expect something like this to be a clickbaity fanboy thing but the guy seems very genuine and sad about what's going on.

Xbox is just better than Playstation right now, straight up. PS has had more and better first party games for the last few years and looks like it will for the next few months but that's basically the only advantage I see with it.

This is a hole that Sony really need to dig themselves out of. The playstation brand is fully attached to their console, but their console is straight up worse than their competitor and they're risking losing a lot of market share if things don't change. Xbox could eat into PS's console market share and maybe even overtake it in a few years time, whilst also not even being reliant on the console sales for its success.

Playstation NEEDS to be a successful console with the strategy they've gone for, so all these fuckups and poor design choices really are baffling.

Part of me is a little irritated, because I feel like I'm getting sucked into the hype/deflate news cycle.

Like oh something good happened, way to go Sony. Something bad happened, Sony is in trouble.  Which isn't something I feel like I've had before.  

Sony made a lot of good moves the past 10 days:

- new Multiplayer partnership
- keeping the store open
- apparently looking into the CMOS issue
- PS Now update
- great Returnal previews
- reaffirming cloud and VR
- new update brought an okay number of new features.


And a different part of me feels like this reaffirms the biggest issue Sony has is their communication.

The second biggest issue is they've been slow with some things.  PS5 still doesn't support VRR and it doesn't seem to be coming soon.  


Part of me wonders if the Zenimax acquisition is also part of the issue.  It may have set the scale of the direction that it feels like Sony should be taking.  

I guess to say I feel like Sony will do what we want them to do, just not on the timescale that we hope it happens.  

Part of me is a little irritated, because I feel like I'm getting sucked into the hype/deflate news cycle.

Like oh something good happened, way to go Sony. Something bad happened, Sony is in trouble.  Which isn't something I feel like I've had before.  

Sony made a lot of good moves the past 10 days:

- new Multiplayer partnership
- keeping the store open
- apparently looking into the CMOS issue
- PS Now update
- great Returnal previews
- reaffirming cloud and VR
- new update brought an okay number of new features.


And a different part of me feels like this reaffirms the biggest issue Sony has is their communication.

The second biggest issue is they've been slow with some things.  PS5 still doesn't support VRR and it doesn't seem to be coming soon.  


Part of me wonders if the Zenimax acquisition is also part of the issue.  It may have set the scale of the direction that it feels like Sony should be taking.  

I guess to say I feel like Sony will do what we want them to do, just not on the timescale that we hope it happens.  

it's a lot scale though right.    MS put their computer OS onto a console and that means some of their OS features are coming for the grander windows teams and not just the xbox team.    i'm sure sony has a big team for their OS but MS probably has an order of magnitude more resources working on it even if it is just perhepherially.  

OS is MS's strength and so far hasn't show they have the creative chops to make even a decent game with most of their studios.   only forza seems to review consistently well.

Games is sony's strength.   they can do a decent OS but they'll always be on their heels compared to MS.

Part of me is a little irritated, because I feel like I'm getting sucked into the hype/deflate news cycle.

Like oh something good happened, way to go Sony. Something bad happened, Sony is in trouble.  Which isn't something I feel like I've had before.  

Sony made a lot of good moves the past 10 days:

- new Multiplayer partnership
- keeping the store open
- apparently looking into the CMOS issue
- PS Now update
- great Returnal previews
- reaffirming cloud and VR
- new update brought an okay number of new features.


And a different part of me feels like this reaffirms the biggest issue Sony has is their communication.

The second biggest issue is they've been slow with some things.  PS5 still doesn't support VRR and it doesn't seem to be coming soon.  


Part of me wonders if the Zenimax acquisition is also part of the issue.  It may have set the scale of the direction that it feels like Sony should be taking.  

I guess to say I feel like Sony will do what we want them to do, just not on the timescale that we hope it happens.  

I think you got it. The biggest issue is communication. They should keep some good news steadily coming but they keep dumping all their news at once and then being silent for ages. With the way modern news cycles and forums and whatnot its a really bad strategy.

And yeah the Zenimax acquisition is a big one, without that it would still feel like Sony are miles ahead as xbox have no answer for PS studios.

If Sony had announced that they were working with Haven studios and Firewalk studios the week they announced that they were restructuring Japan Studio, I think that news would have felt a little different.

It would have still stung for a lot of people, but for others it may have felt more like Sony was branching out in different ways instead of just shutting down a studio.


MS's direction is very clear cut.  We know what their goals are.
But we don't know right now with Sony.  

I'll be a broken record but it feels like PS3 in many ways. Sony was still amazing during that gen, even if they stumbled from time to time.

I'll be a broken record but it feels like PS3 in many ways. Sony was still amazing during that gen, even if they stumbled from time to time.

Well except the hardware is much better (for devs) and price much lower.

I'll be a broken record but it feels like PS3 in many ways. Sony was still amazing during that gen, even if they stumbled from time to time.

I know I was pissed the other day when I rambled about days gone. But honestly, where has Sony really stumbled so far?

I know I was pissed the other day when I rambled about days gone. But honestly, where has Sony really stumbled so far?

I don't think they've made any big stumbles.  

- Japan Studio news sucks, but it makes sense
- San Diego making a Gamepass game, but it makes sense.  
- various features missing like VRR

Nothing they can't fix, or that didn't make sense.

Well except the hardware is much better (for devs) and price much lower.

I wasn't a ps3 dev so I can't say for sure, but yeah dev side omg no way is ps5 like ps3.

I know I was pissed the other day when I rambled about days gone. But honestly, where has Sony really stumbled so far?

I don't think they've made any big stumbles.  

- Japan Studio news sucks, but it makes sense
- San Diego making a Gamepass game, but it makes sense.  
- various features missing like VRR

Nothing they can't fix, or that didn't make sense.

Communication is pretty bad imo. Compare early PS5 to early PS4.

I think any other ps5 stumble is way too early to say.

I wasn't a ps3 dev so I can't say for sure, but yeah dev side omg no way is ps5 like ps3.

Communication is pretty bad imo. Compare early PS5 to early PS4.

I think any other ps5 stumble is way too early to say.

Yeah I remember the PS5 reveal. Was horrible. As a tech show it was good. But it was the first introduction of the PS5 to the public. They did a bad job with it. And a bad job communicating their BC.

The Japan studios thing. Honestly I feel sony gave Japan studios a massive pass that other studios didn't get, and at some point enough was enough.

They didn't manage to become what they should have. Their games weren't profitable. And they didn't score really high either. IMO sony mismanaged the studio. They should have let them release games like soul sacrifice and freedom wars on PS4. Those type of projects could have helped with their Japanese game sales. While they are blockbusters. I feel in Japan and the west they could have sold enough to be profitable.

Instead we got knack and knack 2.

I don't think they've made any big stumbles.  

- Japan Studio news sucks, but it makes sense
- San Diego making a Gamepass game, but it makes sense.  
- various features missing like VRR

Nothing they can't fix, or that didn't make sense.

Price. Rise.

Price. Rise.

I knew I was forgetting a big one.

I knew I was forgetting a big one.

Lol, the big one. I've said it before, but its the juxtaposition of Game Pass and the Sony price rise that makes it a real issue. One or the other and it wouldn't be so bad.

And I've also said before, the regional pricing is the real victim of the price rise, Americans won't think its too bad.

And also as many others have said, Sony aren't doing too badly. They're not really fumbling that hard, especially compared to MS with XB1 early on. Its just Sony are doing kinda meh while Xbox are knocking it out of the park.

I remember back with PS4, they went like 3 years without a major fumble imo.


Made PS+ mandatory? Didn't matter, they looked like saints compared to the other guy.

Poorly received launch games? Wasn't good, but comparable to xbox.

Order 1886 flop and "PS4 has no games"? Well Bloodborne stopped that from being important.

I remember back with PS4, they went like 3 years without a major fumble imo.


Made PS+ mandatory? Didn't matter, they looked like saints compared to the other guy.

Poorly received launch games? Wasn't good, but comparable to xbox.

Order 1886 flop and "PS4 has no games"? Well Bloodborne stopped that from being important.

Yeah. A better and (initially) cheaper console than their competitors and only some minor issues like you said, last gen Sony really nailed it. This time its xbox who have the better designed console, if it was the other way around these 'issues' currently with Sony would seem quite minor again. Without the bethesda purchase, Sony would still be bossing first party output, so these 'issues' might have seemed quite minor.

Again, point is that its stuff that xbox have done which makes Sony look bad. The only thing Sony have done worse than last gen is the price rise and some bad optics stuff of Japan studio and the digital stores. New game output is off to a way better start than with PS4, PS4 also lacked features and had a fairly work-in-progress UI at launch so PS5 isn't any worse here.

So where are we at?

Despite the handfuls of acquisitions, this gen feels pretty normal to me.
Minor missteps that most people don't care about.

Irritatingly a lot of people are hung up on the Zenimax acquisition. Not the acquisition itself though, but fanboys are convinced that Microsoft is in the midst of buying up the whole industry, and that the acquisition like Sony buying Firesprite was defensive to prevent MS from buying them.

Microsoft has a really strong holiday season coming up, and Sony basically has nothing. But the next year looks to be a strong one for Sony. I don't think we'll be seeing Zenimax really changing things until late 2022, or later really.

it funny to see someone complain about too much focus on the zemimax aqusition and in the next paragraph say sony has no holiday line-up days after releasing death loop...

ms has the mindshare still.  all of it is unrealized hope for the future based on games announced 5 years before release,.. but right now people fully belive that for $180 a year MS will be giving them 12+ AAA first party games a year by 2023 plus whatever third party and indie titles they secure. 

false hope in my opinion but faith is often stronger than logic.

it funny to see someone complain about too much focus on the zemimax aqusition and in the next paragraph say sony has no holiday line-up days after releasing death loop...

It's not really related.
I was specifically talking about people think MS is buying up the industry.
Technically MS released Deathloop. :P
But Sony's lack of holiday line up is more down to delays. Horizon, and at one point God of War was probably the intended holiday line up.

It's funny how people tend to only look at holiday games and dismiss the rest of the year. What has MS had this year?
Sony has Kena, Deathloop this month

It's funny how people tend to only look at holiday games and dismiss the rest of the year. What has MS had this year?
Sony has Kena, Deathloop this month

Oh Microsoft has had absolutely nothing.
But they have Age of Empires, Halo and Forza in the next coming couple months. Which is a crazy couple of months.

Oh Microsoft has had absolutely nothing.
But they have Age of Empires, Halo and Forza in the next coming couple months. Which is a crazy couple of months.

Sure! Didn't know AoE was releasing this year. Its typical MS though cluttering the holidays with the rest of the year absolutely barren

It feels like the MS momentum paused. They were pulling all these moves and significantly increasing their value, but now the waiting game begins. Starfield is huge and next year but all their other mega announcements like Avowed, Elder Scrolls V, The Outer Worlds 2, and Fable imo are still years away. In the meantime Sony has huge games releasing now.

I think Sony screwed up by letting Microsoft narrow the gap significantly in such a short amount of time, but for now they still have the upper hand with software imo.



Hardware and services, yeah MS is killing it. Xbox has some funky things with their operating system but it's really easy with gamepass to just enjoy playing games.

It's not really related.
I was specifically talking about people think MS is buying up the industry.
Technically MS released Deathloop. :P
But Sony's lack of holiday line up is more down to delays. Horizon, and at one point God of War was probably the intended holiday line up.

of course it's related.  

it was a Sony exclusive until the studio got bought by MS.  overnight the rhetoric turned to "i'll wait for gamepass" completely undercutting the value of this game to Sony.  

Sony this past year seems to be dedicated to tackling criticisms.

- keeping the PS3, Vita stores open
- fixing the CMOS battery issue on PS4/PS5.
- working on creating a game pass competitor
- working on expanding their first party studios

Jim Ryan said they did not want to be complacent this gen. 

After this year, I'm really starting to believe it. 

MS has 22 development studios + external publishing.

Sony has 15 development studios + external publishing + support studios (PlayStation Malaysia, Nixxes, Valkyrie Entertainment + etc)

Microsoft doesn't seem to have anywhere near as much inhouse support as Sony does. 


But I predict that SIE will buy a few more studios in the next year to try to be closer to MS in development studios.

They will probably continue with smaller, lesser known studios.

the way Sony works these days we shouldn't be surprised if ember labs or lucid is acquired.  I wouldn't rule out supermassive or ready at dawn but maybe the missed their opportunity.  

also jade's new studio could be up for grabs.  

i'd say kojima too but I don't think he wants to be aquired. 

the way Sony works these days we shouldn't be surprised if ember labs or lucid is acquired.  I wouldn't rule out supermassive or ready at dawn but maybe the missed their opportunity.  

also jade's new studio could be up for grabs.  

i'd say kojima too but I don't think he wants to be aquired.

They have already missed Ready at Dawn, purchased by Facebook/Meta.  
I agree, don't think Kojima wants to be acquired but maybe SIE could change his mind.  

I'm betting they'll buy 3 smaller studios or 1-2 larger ones next year.  

Jade's studio and Deviation games seem likely.

They have already missed Ready at Dawn, purchased by Facebook/Meta.  
I agree, don't think Kojima wants to be acquired but maybe SIE could change his mind.  

I'm betting they'll buy 3 smaller studios or 1-2 larger ones next year.  

Jade's studio and Deviation games seem likely.

oh right.  I forgot about that.  

we'll ember studios is the one I really hope they purchase.  I haven't played kena yet but even if it's so-so I don't care.  Sony has the ability to help them get better but you can't coach style and I really like the art direction of kena.  more and bigger please!!

not even sure who else is left for grabs.  

MS probably buys something huge like EA or take two.  fudge them. 

ComicBook.com: PlayStation Acquires Studio Behind One of the World's Most Popular Games.
https://comicbook.com/gaming/news/playstation-sony-aniplex-acquires-fate-grand-order-studio-delight-works-popular-game/

lol. 

For the right price, anybody would sell. Bethesda was doing fantastic and growing. But when MS literally puts billions infront of you, and over night you can become a billionaire, you'll sell.

Same with kojima, same with ted price. After spiderman he got an offer that was worth it for him. He becomes a hundred millionaire, still works the same job, still gets a fantastic salary. My pridection, kojima will sell before he retires. When he is still working there will be the time where KP will be valued the highest, he will sell, and eventually retire with crazy amounts of cash.

E3 2022 will be big for Sony. I'm already feeling the hype.

What will ms be able to do? Maybe pull a Nintendo and go all in on Starfield? It and Hellblade seem like the only big games from them ready for an update.

E3 2022 will be big for Sony. I'm already feeling the hype.

What will ms be able to do? Maybe pull a Nintendo and go all in on Starfield? It and Hellblade seem like the only big games from them ready for an update.

they just announce their entire 2026 line up and sprinkle in a few vapor ware titles.  this is the MS way.  every last year is always a disappointment but don't fret because every next year is going to be MS's biggest year ever!!

E3 2022 will be big for Sony. I'm already feeling the hype.

What will ms be able to do? Maybe pull a Nintendo and go all in on Starfield? It and Hellblade seem like the only big games from them ready for an update.

MS supposedly has tons of games in development, but a lot of it isn't coming for a long time. Obsidian alone is supposed to have like 4 or more games in some stage of development.

I am curious to see what Sony does. They have barely announced anything this gen. They could throw everything out.  But so far, they have been prioritizing shorter times between announcement and release. 

I think this generation/next generation is going to be insane on the first party front.

I think this generation/next generation is going to be insane on the first party front.

I think by next gen there will be no 3rd party outside of indies and everything will be exclusives.

horray for needing to buy multiple hardware's and multiple subs in order to game,.. oh and after that the games will all be GaaS and require season passes to keep playing.

I swear to God I'll just play retro games for the rest of my life....

I thought this was a good time to re-evaluate this.  

I felt that MS was ahead because they seemed to be doing things that gamers liked. Backwards compatibility, Gamepass is very liked in a lot of circles, the Xbox hardware is great, and it felt like MS's marketing has stepped up.  

But the most important thing at the end of the day are the games. On this front, I expected MS to do a lot better than they have. And it still seems like they're struggling to hit their stride.
They have a large number of games that seems like they will be 4+ years between announcement and release. Which is crazy.  

Sony on the other hand, has released every first party game they announced at the first PS5 Showcase.  

I worry a bit about Sony's live service push.

But I also get the impression that MS is focusing more on variety over quality in the next year. Which can also be troubling.

Well,.. my main critique on Sony is not having enough of that quirky variety that drew me into their ecosystem in the first place and not enough "indie" games along side their AAA to round out their line up. 

To that end I kind of like what MS is doing.  


…but then I watched some trailers.   Yeesh.  It's hard to believe pentiment is from industry veterans.  That shame looks like a lone wolf's first attempt at making a game.  

I am pretty sure I've made a similar post, but I think this generation will be interesting.  

I would say it's already a very significant generation. MS and Sony are expanding at unprecedented rates. MS acquiring the biggest third party publisher, Sony acquiring several studios.

But there's a lot of unknowns.

It's hard to say what MS will end up doing this generation. It feels like the current assumption is that they will keep expanding. But maybe that isn't correct. We have had a lot of reports of seriously troubled development with various games. They have a lot of studios that seem to be years away from really being productive. Maybe they will get there, but maybe they won't. Maybe MS will opt to start downsizing again towards the end of the generation.  Imagine if in a few years, MS ends up selling Activision to someone.

It's also hard to say how Sony will wind up this generation. Will their live service push be successful? How will they continue to grow through out this generation?

Both companies are very dedicated to growth on a scale they've never done. This generation might not be the craziest from a consumer standpoint, but I think when it comes to the shape of the industry it might be one of the biggest changes it's ever seen.

I've talked before about where I would like to see both companies. I'd like to see MS figure themselves out. There's been a lot of reports of development troubles. Avowed has gone through multiple reboots. Complaints about Fable not having experienced developers working on it.

I know it isn't that abnormal for a game to get delayed, but it seems like MS is having a lot of issues. The next 12 months looks pretty decent, but they've announced so many games that are years away.

I would like Sony to keep expanding, I think something like 30 studios would be a good place for them.

I am pretty sure I've made a similar post, but I think this generation will be interesting.  

I would say it's already a very significant generation. MS and Sony are expanding at unprecedented rates. MS acquiring the biggest third party publisher, Sony acquiring several studios.

But there's a lot of unknowns.

It's hard to say what MS will end up doing this generation. It feels like the current assumption is that they will keep expanding. But maybe that isn't correct. We have had a lot of reports of seriously troubled development with various games. They have a lot of studios that seem to be years away from really being productive. Maybe they will get there, but maybe they won't. Maybe MS will opt to start downsizing again towards the end of the generation.  Imagine if in a few years, MS ends up selling Activision to someone.

It's also hard to say how Sony will wind up this generation. Will their live service push be successful? How will they continue to grow through out this generation?

Both companies are very dedicated to growth on a scale they've never done. This generation might not be the craziest from a consumer standpoint, but I think when it comes to the shape of the industry it might be one of the biggest changes it's ever seen.

I've talked before about where I would like to see both companies. I'd like to see MS figure themselves out. There's been a lot of reports of development troubles. Avowed has gone through multiple reboots. Complaints about Fable not having experienced developers working on it.

I know it isn't that abnormal for a game to get delayed, but it seems like MS is having a lot of issues. The next 12 months looks pretty decent, but they've announced so many games that are years away.

I would like Sony to keep expanding, I think something like 30 studios would be a good place for them.

Unity just fired a bunch of people. I think expansion is on hold for most places.

Could see Microsoft cutting some teams, same with Sony. Maybe Bend or London :'(

we are now pretty formally in a ressesion.  there are legit fears of a depression on the horizon.   

everything could be fukt so it would be good to be defensive.  if nothing else things will be much much cheaper to aquire by the end of the year when hopefully we bottom.  

MS sooo overpaid for Activision. 

Unity just fired a bunch of people. I think expansion is on hold for most places.

Could see Microsoft cutting some teams, same with Sony. Maybe Bend or London :'(

Unity hasn't been doing very great. I wouldn't take them as being particularly indicative of a trend.

I don't think Sony will cut teams, although maybe Sony London isn't that safe...

MS cutting teams might make sense.

They would first cut games and reposition them imo.  Halo needs help and I'll bet ms is not happy with their flagship franchise doing so bad. 

Sorry for the bump.

I feel like Sony is way ahead on the games front here, and the casual crowd.

But Microsoft seems to have a pretty strong hold on the hardcore. Era and other sites, very strongly feel that Microsoft is pro-consumer and Sony is anti-consumer. Gamepass isn't huge, but it's very loved by a lot of these people, and they're content with MS buying up the industry so that Gamepass is filled with their favorite content. $70 is incredibly unpopular, seems like it is even more unpopular than microtransactions.

Xbox Game Studios I think is quite a bit bigger now than PlayStation is. But it doesn't feel like the games are there to see the difference. It seems like the studios are making a ton of things, but they're way too spread out.

They'll be a lot bigger when Activision goes through. I am curious about how things will change at that point. At that point, Xbox Game Studios will be like 3x the size of PlayStation Studios.

of course era loves gamepass.  they have threads like: 52 games in 52 weeks.   they are the "whales" of the industry and they gain the most by the all you can eat gaming buffet that gamepass is.

...but gamepass is not so economically great for those 10's of millions that are content with 1 game a year or just free-to-play games especially when the 1 game a year they want to play isn't coming to the service.

era acts as a "hype man" for gamepass.  they are literally desperate to have causuals buy into gamepass so it can be economically viable because they don't want to go back to the days where they were play $70+ dollars a month to feed their gaming habit.    ...which is exactly why gamepass is not economically viable for the industry.


MS specifically want CoD because for like 1/3 of gamers CoD is that one game a year 10's of millions of gamers buy.   if they have CoD (which requires gold) it may not be soo much of an upsale to get them into gamepass.   

I keep hearing about how Sony is bad for having timed exclusives, and I've heard that MS doesn't do that anymore.

Rather strange then, that there's a long list of indie titles that are Xbox exclusive for 6 months, then.

CNBC:
It does appear to be an arms race. Everyone's getting incredibly acquisitive at the moment. So, aside from Activision and potentially what happens there, are you still looking to remain acquisitive because you've got Tencent really starting to get involved in the space now. You've got Sony nibbling at the edges. Or is it just about waiting and seeing what happens with Activision and then pressing pause for a little bit in terms of buying up other studios?

Phil Spencer:
Yeah, I mean you mentioned it, you nailed it. This is such a competitive market. I don't think we get to press pause on anything. Uh you know, Tencent is the largest gaming company on the planet today and they continue to heavily invest in gaming content and game creators. Sony is a larger business than we are in gaming today and they continue to invest. When you look at the investments that we've made, it's a highly, highly competitive market. We strive to be a major player here. We want to deliver great content for our players and we're going to remain active. Like I said, whether that's investing in our internal teams that are already building great games that people know and love. Whether it's building new partnerships.

And one of the things I love about coming here to Tokyo is the developers. I get to meet with the new partnerships we have with people like Kojima Productions and going to talk with some of our existing publishing partners and independent creators about games that we want to build. And if it turns into acquisitive M&A work, we're active there too. So the work for us never ends. It's a competitive market and I want to make sure Xbox is at the forefront of innovation and competition.

Era Thread (https://www.resetera.com/threads/cnbc-phil-spencer-not-pausing-acquisitions-doesn%E2%80%99t-think-raising-prices-on-xbox-consoles-in-these-economic-times-is-the-right-move-for-customers.632732/)

Oh fudge off spencer.  

At least with Tencent they aren't going to keep games off other platforms.  I'd rather not have any console makers buy any big publishers.  

But here we are with MS trying to pull this crud

I think Sony is in a really difficult position. Last gen they really kicked things off once Bloodborne released. GOW 2 could have a similar effect for a few months, but Starfield could easily switch things back to an even playing field.

saw an article alluding to MS in negotiations to acquire a "japonese publisher".   for fudge sakes if MS aquires SE i'm going to be soo fudgy mad.  i'll quite video games before i buy into MS's monopoly.

saw an article alluding to MS in negotiations to acquire a "japonese publisher".   for fudge sakes if MS aquires SE i'm going to be soo fudgy mad.  i'll quite video games before i buy into MS's monopoly.

In the case of Square, I think Sony would pull out more stops to buy them.

I think it's more likely that Microsoft would go after Sega instead.

In the case of Square, I think Sony would pull out more stops to buy them.

I think it's more likely that Microsoft would go after Sega instead.

even then,.. assuming activision goes through MS has aquired too much of the industry.   they are going to kill the entire industry with their shame management.

saw an article alluding to MS in negotiations to acquire a "japonese publisher".   for fudge sakes if MS aquires SE i'm going to be soo fudgy mad.  i'll quite video games before i buy into MS's monopoly.

Imran Khan source (https://www.resetera.com/threads/imran-microsoft-has-talked-with-major-japanese-publishers-about-acquisitions.637599/)

They have talked with major Japanese publishers about acquisitions. I can't speak to how far those conversations have got. That's not a thing that most people know about. And I certainly don't.

But they have talked. They are very clearly interested in some major Japanese publishers. They're interested in smaller studios.

I think Sony is in a really difficult position.

I feel like Sony has to push hard for content creation.

Xbox + Zenimax + Activision + Maybe Sega? would be a crazy force to fight against.

Feels like they're falling further behind. And most of their moves have been pretty small in comparison.

Microsoft tried with Capcom a few years ago & it was very close to happening.

:o

Personally I think it's switched pretty substantially.

Feels like MS has squandered their good will and their studios to a great extent.

Sony has closed the gap pretty substantially in their studio count, and their studios seem to be doing a better job of getting games out.

I feel like we all just read a bit too much of resetera at the time. Sony is killing it, and now that the Activision purchase seems to be falling through, MSs situation doesn't seem so strong. Halo is a mess. Gears isn't what it used to be. The majority of their xbox studios are struggling with their games (rare, playground, the initiative, 343i).

Bethesda is saving their asses, but I wonder how long that will work until MS start to mismanage them

Once starfield does below expectations and the likely exclusive elder scrolls 6 does below as well, we will see them getting reshuffled or some of the studios shut down.

It's very likely to happen

As much as I think starfield looks great. But why would I even pay $70 when I can just pay for gamepass. 

The biggest difference between MS and Sony are that Sony's big studios release big games and are productive whereas MS don't. Xbox only has Playground to rely on to release high quality games at a good cadence and it's only Forza Horizon, we still don't know how they'll handle Fable. 343 take too long and underdeliver. Coalition are stuck on a outdated IP and BGS take so long to make their games. Sony would be in the exact same situation without ND, Insomniac, Guerrilla and Santa Monica. Without them 4 the they'd have to rely on the likes of Sucker Punch,Bend, Media Molecule and Polyphony which are much less productive.

Once starfield does below expectations and the likely exclusive elder scrolls 6 does below as well, we will see them getting reshuffled or some of the studios shut down.

It's very likely to happen

As much as I think starfield looks great. But why would I even pay $70 when I can just pay for gamepass.  

what what expectations are we putting on this title?

critical reception?  game unit sales?  console unit sales?  new gamepass subscriptions?

i imagine it will do great on critical reception.   i just don't know about the other ways to grade it.   i have to imagine a massive portion of people that want to play starfield that already have an xbox already have a gamepass subscription too.  so like.. will it sell well on steam?  will it push consoles?   i dunno.   it's a "big" game but it's also a new IP which always makes it a bit harder to grab the attention of the more casual gamers.  

i doubt it "does nothing" but does it do "enough" to make MS happy?   i think this is a pretty big test of MS's gamepass approach.   starfield assuredly was an expensive game to make so can they really afford to give it away "free" on gamepass if gamepass subs are stalling out near 25 million.

what what expectations are we putting on this title?

critical reception?  game unit sales?  console unit sales?  new gamepass subscriptions?

i imagine it will do great on critical reception.   i just don't know about the other ways to grade it.   i have to imagine a massive portion of people that want to play starfield that already have an xbox already have a gamepass subscription too.  so like.. will it sell well on steam?  will it push consoles?   i dunno.   it's a "big" game but it's also a new IP which always makes it a bit harder to grab the attention of the more casual gamers. 

i doubt it "does nothing" but does it do "enough" to make MS happy?   i think this is a pretty big test of MS's gamepass approach.   starfield assuredly was an expensive game to make so can they really afford to give it away "free" on gamepass if gamepass subs are stalling out near 25 million.

I think i'd say more on how does it push xbox consoles. But that also may not be a metric that MS really cares about.  I'm sure they've already looked into what they are missing by not putting on PS5 so they may not care. I don't see it pushing a ton of new gamepass subscribers, tbh.

I think ms is still ahead. They've been having a lot of issues as of late but what happens if starfield is a hit? Sony has no short term response to that.

Long term microsoft is screwed, I think we all agree that they'll change something about gamepass, but short term they could crush Sony if Starfield, Avowed, and other crud release within 12 months and do well. Sony only has Spiderman 2 announced.

wow, I could not be more opposite then you.

short term MS is screwed.  ABK being blocked is "feels" diminishing even if nothing changed.  Xbox has been on a drought forever and starfield is still pretty far away.  and who knows if starfield can be a hit.  even if good it's a new IP which makes things harder.  plus, this is a Bethesda game that's day-1 on PC and will probably require modders to make it playable.

meanwhile Sony is absolutely crushing it in sales.  spiderman is equally close as starfield and an easier IP to advertise.  that TLoU mp is due and especially after the TV show another easy thing to advertise.  plus they have next to nothing announced so ps can do a showcase whenever they feel like it unlike MS that blew their load years ago.


where MS is well positioned is even without ABK they are the biggest 1st party by far and despite ABK I'm certain they will aquire more. MS has the cash and patience to keep buying more and more.  ....and if gamers actually transition to the cloud MS is already basically untouchable.

not sure if I agree we'll move to the cloud or not.  I see it as a battle,.. publishers would certainly love how cloud can't be pirated.  gamers would loathe the inconvenience.  who wins?

I think ms is still ahead. They've been having a lot of issues as of late but what happens if starfield is a hit? Sony has no short term response to that.

Long term microsoft is screwed, I think we all agree that they'll change something about gamepass, but short term they could crush Sony if Starfield, Avowed, and other crud release within 12 months and do well. Sony only has Spiderman 2 announced.

Eh I think even if all of those things come out, it's mostly playing catch up.  

I feel like chances are good, Spider-man will outsell Starfield.  

Eh I think even if all of those things come out, it's mostly playing catch up.  

I feel like chances are good, Spider-man will outsell Starfield.  

niche-man?  no way...

I think ms is still ahead. They've been having a lot of issues as of late but what happens if starfield is a hit? Sony has no short term response to that.

Long term microsoft is screwed, I think we all agree that they'll change something about gamepass, but short term they could crush Sony if Starfield, Avowed, and other crud release within 12 months and do well. Sony only has Spiderman 2 announced.

I know I already replied to this...

But I think it's clear even a lot of Xbox fans are unhappy with the state of Xbox right now.

I've been a die hard Xbox fan for over 20 years now but it's getting really hard to stay on board. I own a PS5 also and they just release banger after banger meanwhile Xbox is just dud after dud. Not sure if it's bad management or what's going on but they need to get their shame together.

From that Xbox reddit source.

I know I already replied to this...

But I think it's clear even a lot of Xbox fans are unhappy with the state of Xbox right now.



From that Xbox reddit source.

Maybe I just have way too much faith in starfield lol.

Maybe I just have way too much faith in starfield lol.

starfield or not,.. it's 6 months away on the heels of basically a year of nothing and what little xbox got was almost entirely due to zenimax aquisition.  

the criticism stands: xbox needs to get their shame together.

like seriously,.. can you imagine series XS first party if the zenimax acquisition was blocked?   spencer has been around far to long to have their entire 1st party in the form of publishers aquired during the generation itself and not get blasted for incompetence...

The major problem Xbox has had is they only started reinvesting in the Xbox brand in 2018. When they started to acquire studios they didn't have much of a nucleus of studios to integrate into. Only RARE and Turn10 have been in the Xbox studio family since the original Xbox. 343 and the coalition are by all accounts relatively new studios. Playground are new too. They've acquired so many studios they're probably still integrating them along with handling Bethesda. They've acquired more studios in the past 5 years than Sony has for the past decade. You compare that to Sony who have the likes of Naughty Dog, Santa Monica, Polyphony digital, Guerrilla,Insomniac etc have been with Sony since PS1/PS2. They're fully ingrained in the ethos of Playstation studios and been sharing knowledge and tech for over 2 decades. It's much easier for Sony to integrate studios as they have foundation of studios already working together.They're bound to have roadbumps because they're trying to compete with Sony and Nintendo who have been cultivating their first party for decades. We won't see the best of Xbox till next gen.

starfield or not,.. it's 6 months away on the heels of basically a year of nothing and what little xbox got was almost entirely due to zenimax aquisition.  

the criticism stands: xbox needs to get their shame together.

like seriously,.. can you imagine series XS first party if the zenimax acquisition was blocked?   spencer has been around far to long to have their entire 1st party in the form of publishers aquired during the generation itself and not get blasted for incompetence...

Xbox definitely needs to fix themselves. Late 2023 to late 2024 could be Xbox's best period of the gen if starfield+avowed+hellblade 2 release, but there's so little to look forward to after that.

The major problem Xbox has had is they only started reinvesting in the Xbox brand in 2018. ...

i'll just stop you right there.   spencer took over in 2014 so why did it take him 4 years to figure out the very simple idea of "1st party games sell consoles"?

i'll just stop you right there.   spencer took over in 2014 so why did it take him 4 years to figure out the very simple idea of "1st party games sell consoles"?

It took 3 years for Phil to convince Nadella that Xbox was worth something.  

It took 3 years for Phil to convince Nadella that Xbox was worth something. 

so basically he failed and failed and failed again for 2.75 years...


...and it's not like spencer was in charge of absolutely nothing during that period.   coalition, 343, rare, lionhead where all mismanaged during this period.  i can't even remember their names but a bunch of new studios were formed at the start of xbox one and basically all of them died within 2-3 years.

The major problem Xbox has had is they only started reinvesting in the Xbox brand in 2018. When they started to acquire studios they didn't have much of a nucleus of studios to integrate into. Only RARE and Turn10 have been in the Xbox studio family since the original Xbox. 343 and the coalition are by all accounts relatively new studios. Playground are new too. They've acquired so many studios they're probably still integrating them along with handling Bethesda. They've acquired more studios in the past 5 years than Sony has for the past decade. You compare that to Sony who have the likes of Naughty Dog, Santa Monica, Polyphony digital, Guerrilla,Insomniac etc have been with Sony since PS1/PS2. They're fully ingrained in the ethos of Playstation studios and been sharing knowledge and tech for over 2 decades. It's much easier for Sony to integrate studios as they have foundation of studios already working together.They're bound to have roadbumps because they're trying to compete with Sony and Nintendo who have been cultivating their first party for decades. We won't see the best of Xbox till next gen.

I think there are probably a lot of different factors at play.

- Sony acquired studios that they were already working closely with.
- A few of MS acquired studios that weren't pumping out games in the first place. Compulsion Games and Undead Labs were going 5 years without releasing a game.
- I recall there were a couple of studios having issues, and MS is apparently too hands off to fix the studio issues.
- this probably extends even worse to Bethesda. MS being overly hands off, Zenimax probably scrambling to put out games they really shouldn't.  
- 343 seems like they had too few managers working on too many things, and just not able to cope with their own projects.

I think there are probably a lot of different factors at play.

- Sony acquired studios that they were already working closely with.
- A few of MS acquired studios that weren't pumping out games in the first place. Compulsion Games and Undead Labs were going 5 years without releasing a game.
- I recall there were a couple of studios having issues, and MS is apparently too hands off to fix the studio issues.
- this probably extends even worse to Bethesda. MS being overly hands off, Zenimax probably scrambling to put out games they really shouldn't.  
- 343 seems like they had too few managers working on too many things, and just not able to cope with their own projects.

We also must consider Bethesda were not exactly in a great place either. They did not purchase a publisher thriving they bought one who had a litany of flops and underperformers. Xbox has shown they're not great at nurturing their own studios so turn around the fortunes of a publisher is a monumental task. BGS and ID are the only studios I'd trust to deliver without managing them. The rest all need oversight and guidance.

We also must consider Bethesda were not exactly in a great place either. They did not purchase a publisher thriving they bought one who had a litany of flops and underperformers. Xbox has shown they're not great at nurturing their own studios so turn around the fortunes of a publisher is a monumental task. BGS and ID are the only studios I'd trust to deliver without managing them. The rest all need oversight and guidance.

bethesda wasn't in that bad of a place.   fallout 76 didn't go well for them but they were far from going bankrupt.  they didn't need MS to buy them to keep going.

bethesda wasn't in that bad of a place.   fallout 76 didn't go well for them but they were far from going bankrupt.  they didn't need MS to buy them to keep going.

Their last major success was Fallout 4 in 2015. I think they were in much more financial difficulty than people were aware because they're not public.

Their last major success was Fallout 4 in 2015. I think they were in much more financial difficulty than people were aware because they're not public.

Doom Eternal was a decent success in 2020

>Doom Eternal has made over $450 million in profit in less than a year since its launch

I'm pretty sure TESO has relatively consistently printed money.

Doom Eternal was a decent success in 2020

>Doom Eternal has made over $450 million in profit in less than a year since its launch

I'm pretty sure TESO has relatively consistently printed money.

Pi, you're such a great guy at making my arguments for me.  xD

Where are the vibes at?

Feels to me like MS over promised and has yet to deliver a lot.
Whereas Sony has under promised and delivered pretty well.

Just for my own interests and tastes, I have so little hype. Nothing announced by Sony or MS looks good enough for me to care at this point. Was really hyped for Avowed but the last trailer completely turned me off.

Unannounced games? MS has a ton of potential but such a bad track record. I want to see what some studios are working on but I have no clue which games if any will actually be great. Sony side I have a lot more hype since Naughty Dog, Guerilla, and Santa Monica are incredible. Pretty confident that I'll love whatever they put out next. Insomniac is great too but I don't know if they'll have more side projects I can get hyped for or if the full studio is hunkered down on Wolverine now.

Just for my own interests and tastes, I have so little hype. Nothing announced by Sony or MS looks good enough for me to care at this point. Was really hyped for Avowed but the last trailer completely turned me off.

Unannounced games? MS has a ton of potential but such a bad track record. I want to see what some studios are working on but I have no clue which games if any will actually be great. Sony side I have a lot more hype since Naughty Dog, Guerilla, and Santa Monica are incredible. Pretty confident that I'll love whatever they put out next. Insomniac is great too but I don't know if they'll have more side projects I can get hyped for or if the full studio is hunkered down on Wolverine now.

I think you nailed it. Xbox has too many studios where the quality is just unknown. My next most anticipated game is Fable but I wonder if the gameplay shown was gameplay. Can Playground deliver in a completely untested genre and IP. Lots of people were excited for Avowed but then they showed the gamplay and so many were underwhelmed.

my vibes are at the industry is at a self destruction moment.

sony clearly fukt up in their persuit of GaaS.   they output is underwhelming and i think will continue to underwhelm for the rest of the generation.   they'll have a few good games but not like they should be.

ms clearly is going to keep acquiring now that ABK went through.   i still think TT gets acquired eventually along with anything else they can get their hands on until they buy up most of the industry.   ...and i can't think of anyone worse at managing studios so that's a really bleak outlook imo.

my vibes are at the industry is at a self destruction moment.

sony clearly fukt up in their persuit of GaaS.   they output is underwhelming and i think will continue to underwhelm for the rest of the generation.   they'll have a few good games but not like they should be.

ms clearly is going to keep acquiring now that ABK went through.   i still think TT gets acquired eventually along with anything else they can get their hands on until they buy up most of the industry.   ...and i can't think of anyone worse at managing studios so that's a really bleak outlook imo.

One company can't own all the studios and be successful. The more they aquire the more studio shut downs will happen

Company culture, processes, strategy can't be the same across all studios, but when you're owned by a company like MS, you gotta follow their culture and strategy. It just won't work.