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Started by Dr. Pezus, May 07, 2014, 03:24 PM

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Legend

She put up ~150 masters for crucifixion after they crucified that many children, its one of Dany's darkest moves but it was still only targeted at the people who deserved it. And again with the execution, her strategy has always been to send public messages by targeting and singling out only those who are at fault. Just like last season when she asked the Tarlys to bend the knee and they refused, she burned them but nobody else.

She's seen that people despise her but Dany has always believed in herself and known people will love her when she gets the chance to prove her worth. She's come to save them from tyrants, from people like cersei who blew up the sept and killed thousands of innocents. She repeatedly refrained from attacking KL with dragons because she said herself "I'm not here to be Queen of the ashes". She was mad and wanted revenge after what cersei and euron did last two episodes and rightly so, but she sank euron's fleet and cersei's army surrendered, she'd won and her revenge was there. All she had to do was wait for Jon to take the red keep and then she could get revenge on Cersei in any way she wanted.

That's just plain wrong, "she doesn't want them to avoid consequences that easily" of course, so she should go and find Cersei and make sure she brutally kills her and gives her what she deserves. Cersei doesn't give a single shame about anyone in KL, so Dany going on a rampage and killing them all isn't consequences for anyone, the people who have wronged her are in fact made to look good rather than bad, she becomes the tyrant Cersei was lying about. Its the complete opposite of revenge, its nonsensical. Dany has shown many times she knows the citizens of KL are poor and innocent people, she doesn't equate them to slave masters at all. In the end Cersei just gets unsatisfyingly crushed by a ceiling which is hardly revenge at all.

In the past Dany has lost many people she loved and gone through a lot of shame (Khal Drogo and the khallesar, her unborn child, her friend betraying her in Qarth, her dragons being stolen, Jorah betraying her and having to exile him, Ser Barristan dying, her betrothed in Mereen, her dragon and most of her allies last season etc.), but through it all she stayed strong and believed in herself, this turn in the space of two episodes is complete rubbish, not something Dany would ever do. If you're going to turn her into a genocidal psycho it needs way more build up.

What do you mean by "that's classic game of thrones"? Did you not understand what I was saying? I said character archs have been butchered and characters are useless now, they're dumb and repeating the same cliche lines, making shame jokes. This is nothing to do with plot armour, and its the complete opposite of "classic game of thrones" which was a character driven story where everything made sense and every character was written intelligently.

I'm glad you brought up plot armour though, because you're right people in GOT aren't supposed to have it yet it was all over the place this episode once again. Those ballistas brought down Rhaegal with 3 perfect shots last episode but not a single hit landed on Drogon since then? Arya got crushed by how many buildings, got caught right next to dragonfire how many times and still survived? Everyone that died was exactly expected to, plot armour is rampant in GOT now. At least this episode was nowhere near as bad as episode 3 for plot armour.
I think you need to rewatch the series because her actions come across a bit different in hindsight.

The show directly stated multiple times that she did these horrible actions to people that did not deserve it. She kills and punishes random masters that are guilty by association only. The Tarlys were not at fault since they had surrendered. She burnt them for not bending the knee, for not aligning with her views of how the world should be. In Essos this is mostly about slavery so it feels justified but in Westeros this is just about her right to sit on the throne.

"Dany has always believed in herself and known people will love her when she gets the chance to prove her worth." No? She has always felt entitled to the throne and lashed out at people that didn't agree. I specifically gave an example of her losing her people's love after she had already proven her worth.

That's just plain wrong, "she doesn't want them to avoid consequences that easily" of course, so she should go and find Cersei and make sure she brutally kills her and gives her what she deserves. Cersei doesn't give a single shame about anyone in KL, so Dany going on a rampage and killing them all isn't consequences for anyone, the people who have wronged her are in fact made to look good rather than bad, she becomes the tyrant Cersei was lying about. Its the complete opposite of revenge, its nonsensical. Dany has shown many times she knows the citizens of KL are poor and innocent people, she doesn't equate them to slave masters at all. In the end Cersei just gets unsatisfyingly crushed by a ceiling which is hardly revenge at all.
Have you never played a war game and not accepted a piece offer? Revenge applies to everyone in Kings Landing, not just Cersei.


I fully understand why people who don't believe the mad queen story works would hate this episode (and I do find it kinda funny that we basically swapped roles compared to our episode 2 discussion) but can you see that it's a great episode if you do accept that as valid? I meant classic GoT in the sense of things not going the way viewers expect, but you can also describe it as classic GoT from the negative perspective too haha.