Thanks... I was trying to work in the Countdown.Forum 2.0 changed it so that countdowns use events in the calendar.
I found that.
[countdown=8,14,2009,13,23]It is time now!![/countdown]
But it didn't work.
Forum 2.0 changed it so that countdowns use events in the calendar.Ohhhh I need to create a event first?
Ohhhh I need to create a event first?You just click "link to calendar" at the very bottom of the thread.
Edit - Looking better I need to create a new Event and not a new Thread.
You just click "link to calendar" at the very bottom of the thread.Ohhhh I looked near the Add Pool only lol
That basically confirms the speculation about the DF leak 4.8TFs (based in actual XDK) that was blocked by MS that instead invited them to show how Scorpio will be after June.Wait, I thought the Scorpio is going for 6TF?
Wait, I thought the Scorpio is going for 6TF?It is but dev kits are currently 4.8 tf. An update this summer brings them to 6 tf.
(https://i.imgur.com/4lUMmhx.png)Probably the obvious that the specs are what they promised and nothing more. I doubt there is any world where they got some even more upgraded specs. Unless zen is actually in it and not an updated jaguar.
Probably the obvious that the specs are what they promised and nothing more. I doubt there is any world where they got some even more upgraded specs. Unless zen is actually in it and not an updated jaguar.Unless ms wants to take a huge loss, zen isnt in.
Probably the obvious that the specs are what they promised and nothing more. I doubt there is any world where they got some even more upgraded specs. Unless zen is actually in it and not an updated jaguar.99% of the time positive comments like this are based off the current world instead of expectations. Probably means scorpio is better than pro, not better than scorpio predictions.
(https://i.imgur.com/4lUMmhx.png)Last time he hyped fudge a Scorpio news was...
Probably the obvious that the specs are what they promised and nothing more. I doubt there is any world where they got some even more upgraded specs. Unless zen is actually in it and not an updated jaguar.I'm more interested about the actual state of Scorpio XDK... why they didn't have the hardware finalized yet... what issues they are having there to reach the target announced at E3 2016.
It wont be less than a pro for sure. But it wont run all games in 4k either.They are expecting Quantum Break in native 4k now when XB1 version runs at 720p.
The GAF thread is one of the most entertaining things I ever read.People anticipating the Scorpio have been very reasonable in the GAF thread. More so than anywhere else I have seen. A majority of the thread does not expect the Rysen crud the crazies are expecting.
How could people be so delusional in both sides (hyping to heavens expecting something crazy not possible for a console and downplaying to hells expecting something even lower than Pro).
Amazed that we haven't seen any leaks yet, especially considering the last 2-3 E3's.Probably because most of the tech specs have been leaked already. Now it's just a matter of diving deeper into them
Amazed that we haven't seen any leaks yet, especially considering the last 2-3 E3's.DF leaked the last consoles releases after GDC... I believe this time MS choose to reach them before they leak to use their works to be more like a PR reveal than an usual leak.
Hoping Crackdown 3 looks good. My buddy and I have been wanting a Crackdown game this gen since before it was announced. Though, we're very cautious because Crackdown 2 was disappointing and the studio in charge of this one has never made a game before.I Doubt there will be a lot of new game info. Probably mostly already released games and sections of games already shown.
DF leaked the last consoles releases after GDC... I believe this time MS choose to reach them before they leak to use their works to be more like a PR reveal than an usual leak.Assuming whatever rumor you're referring to with 4.8 TF is true, only hardcore gamers read DF, any "damage" would be extremely negligible at best. They could simply explain it as needing an SDK update in the future and people would be ok with it. We know how the gaming world works.
I think that was good choice.
It the rumors are right DF was about to leak the 4.8TFs of the actual XDK and that could damage Scorpio because their claim at E3 (6TFs)... so MS invited them to explain why and when the XDK will reach 6TFs and the final target specs.
Assuming whatever rumor you're referring to with 4.8 TF is true, only hardcore gamers read DF, any "damage" would be extremely negligible at best. They could simply explain it as needing an SDK update in the future and people would be ok with it. We know how the gaming world works.I disagree.
And any of those reports will include that DF says it will hit 6tf by launch. Not that anyone but hardcore gamers will give a crud. As MS says, this is an enthusiasts machine. We know better.It will include that after MS reach then with this exclusive deal.
And any of those reports will include that DF says it will hit 6tf by launch. Not that anyone but hardcore gamers will give a crud. As MS says, this is an enthusiasts machine. We know better.I think you're vastly overestimating people. I've seen tons of comments from people clealry thinking that this is going to be a mass market product over the last year.
It will include that after MS reach then with this exclusive deal.Doesn't matter how or why.
Before that they will leak only the actual XDK specs.
I think you're vastly overestimating people. I've seen tons of comments from people clealry thinking that this is going to be a mass market product over the last year.And a small circle of people think it will make Xbox start outselling PS4 WW. I tend to ignore the crazies.
Xbox fans are HYPING this up to be the greatest console ever. They are putting it on pedestal it cannot meet.I hate that companies encourage this nowadays. They get everyone overhyped on vague statements and then when reality hits we blame the fans for "doing it to themselves."
I hate that companies encourage this nowadays. They get everyone overhyped on vague statements and then when reality hits we blame the fans for "doing it to themselves."Nah, I'll fully blame MS. They knew perfectly well that speculation would start running rampant after they announced the thing with a few pieces of information and bunch of buzzwords over a year in advance.
If Scorpio doesn't use Zen there will be a million posts tomorrow saying people who are disappointed are stupid. Practically no one will think about how trivial it would have been for MS to tweet Zen wasn't happening when the speculation started.
Since I've gotten into game development, I love/hate reading people agree on tech stuff that's completely wrong.Our consensus is always the best consensus because we have smart people.
Right now the gaf thread has a lot of people interested in Scorpio upscaling framerate like it's interpolation or some other magic, like what PSVR uses for 120 fps. In reality the Scorpio would just be running animations and some logic at half the render framerate which is incredibly common in recent years.
It's a good reminder that the general consensus isn't always correct. I wonder how often someone reads our consensus here and facepalms :P
Our consensus is always the best consensus because we have smart people.Only TheMachine is smart enough here :P
Our consensus is always the best consensus because we have smart people.Banana offsets that, though.
Our consensus is always the best consensus because we have smart people.we have raven, dernebel and riderz. how smart can we be?
Banana offsets that, though.haa! i just saw this post after i posted mine.
i think it will be zen. and is the timer correct?Yes.
i think it will be zen. and is the timer correct?It would be fun if it's Zen but then that makes the price reveal even more interesting.
It would be fun if it's Zen but then that makes the price reveal even more interesting.i think the smarter option would be to go with Zen.
i think the smarter option would be to go with Zen.If it's Zen, it could be $599.
Where is the option for "a sexy, smoothly peeled potato"?How silly of me to forget.
If it's Zen, it could be $599.this thing isnt gonna sell bucket loads what ever the price tag is. its gonna be 450 or higher. 400 at best case scenario. as long as it shares a library with PS4 and XB1 multiplates it wont sell a lot. and by a lot i mean XB1 or PS4 numbers. but by making it Zen, and beafing up the specs, they are future proofing this with next gen consoles. by the time the PS5 and next gen xbox roll out, this would have an install base of lets say, 15 million (just a hypothetical). when next gen starts, this thing will be at a cheap price tag (relativily) maybe 300 or 250$ or so, it will play PS5 and next gen Xbox games, and have an already established install base. they start out a gen with an 10-20 million advantage in install base. it makes the transition for both third parties and them selfs easier and with less risk.
It plus the other spec bumps will cost a lot and at that point MS would probably want a profit. They'd have to sell it as an uber premium game console. Could be cool and smart.
this thing isnt gonna sell bucket loads what ever the price tag is. its gonna be 450 or higher. 400 at best case scenario. as long as it shares a library with PS4 and XB1 multiplates it wont sell a lot. and by a lot i mean XB1 or PS4 numbers. but by making it Zen, and beafing up the specs, they are future proofing this with next gen consoles. by the time the PS5 and next gen xbox roll out, this would have an install base of lets say, 15 million (just a hypothetical). when next gen starts, this thing will be at a cheap price tag (relativily) maybe 300 or 250$ or so, it will play PS5 and next gen Xbox games, and have an already established install base. they start out a gen with an 10-20 million advantage in install base. it makes the transition for both third parties and them selfs easier and with less risk.You think scorpio will be future compatible with the next XBOX? I think that would work if the next XBOX is another equivalent to PS4 Pro, but not if it's a full new gen.
You think scorpio will be future compatible with the next XBOX? I think that would work if the next XBOX is another equivalent to PS4 Pro, but not if it's a full new gen.i think it can. of course it would get the "lower end" versions of games. but i can see third parties still release games on it, specially if it means them selling more software. MS did say they see a "future without generations", and i think what they meant by that is a more seamless transition between gens. whats the point in releasing such a high end piece of hardware, if its going to be obsolete in 3 years or so?
Plus the install base doesn't matter for next gen since MS has already integrated PC into their ecosystem. Scorpio could sell under 1 million and it'd still get support.
No box. Probably not even a dev kit. Just spec sheets, text, and video of gameplay from released games imo.im thinking no box. no dev kit obviously. specs, gameplay for Forza 7, Gears and maybe halo 5.
No box. Probably not even a dev kit. Just spec sheets, text, and video of gameplay from released games imo.I think that's exactly what we'll get. Price and console reveal for E3.
im thinking no box. no dev kit obviously. specs, gameplay for Forza 7, Gears and maybe halo 5.QB will be there
I think that's exactly what we'll get. Price and console reveal for E3.i could see price left for later too. closer to release or so. i also think we will get a "november release" but no specific date
its jaguar CPUOnly one right in the poll!
Why does the chart say custom cores if its just jaguar?Its a customized Jaguar I think.
Eurogamer thinks this is going to be a $500 console.I think it'll be $500 too. That cooling system sounds premium.
Scorpio made simple: the next Xbox's tech explained • Eurogamer.net (http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2017-04-06-project-scorpio-explained)
That was a weird console reveal...probably to offset the leak. it was rumored that DF were going to leak Scorpio specs and say that current SDK performance is 4.8 TF instead of 6. that would have made headlines.
Not too bad but horribly odd. Why would they do this before they could show any games actually running on the thing? It forces people to only think about the numbers and on paper Scorpio is much worse than fans expected. The DX12 optimizations and the like might do wonders in practice but right now it feels like a disappointment.
For what reason did this need to happen before E3?
No Forza 7?That's a separate announcement at some point I believe.
Also, yeah I agree with Legend.Just something to keep the hardcore gamers interested before they push it out to everyone at e3
What was this and why did this have to exist?
Just something to keep the hardcore gamers interested before they push it out to everyone at e3I guess... thinking about it Xbox didn't exactly make the news a lot in the last couple months, at least positively, so looking at it from that perspective this kinda make sense.
That was a weird console reveal...Damage control.
Not too bad but horribly odd. Why would they do this before they could show any games actually running on the thing? It forces people to only think about the numbers and on paper Scorpio is much worse than fans expected. The DX12 optimizations and the like might do wonders in practice but right now it feels like a disappointment.
For what reason did this need to happen before E3?
Damage control.The video today basically confirms they don't have 6tf dev kits right now. Forza 6 demo used "cobbled together" production parts. So it was probably 6tf but not in a near finished state.
DF was about to leak the actual XDK that was way lower than actual 6TF target and MS intervented giving them the full TARGET specs.
Why TARGET? Because I don't believe they have a machine running at 6TFs right now... they are optimizing the cooling system and waiting a better silicon production to reach the 6TFs in June.
The video today basically confirms they don't have 6tf dev kits right now. Forza 6 demo used "cobbled together" production parts. So it was probably 6tf but not in a near finished state.Yeap... Forza is probably running in a PC targeted to Scorpio final specs.
Wait so they didn't even say whether it was jaguar or zen? So it's something in between?It says in the article "Envolved Jaguar".
It says in the article "Envolved Jaguar".Yeah I just saw it. So this is definitely nothing huge like gaf was hyping it up to be. lol
Even with some custom tricks it is Jaguar cores yet.
Yeah I just saw it. So this is definitely nothing huge like gaf was hyping it up to be. lolYeah it's just MS equivalent to the PS4 Pro, but will probably be more premium.
I can't see this playing everything in 4kNo it won't but I'd expect most 1080p XBO games to be in 4k.
Gaf seems to be jumoing on the hype train over scorpios "boost" mode.Have they confirmed anything special about it? It sounded pretty standard.
Have they confirmed anything special about it? It sounded pretty standard.Looks like it'll take full advantage of the system instead of just the faster CPU as is the case with the Pro, still won't make a huge difference of course.
No it won't but I'd expect most 1080p XBO games to be in 4k.Have they confirmed anything special about it? It sounded pretty standard.16x af. Out side of that i dint think so. Pretty much what sony is doing and they still have months to get their features right.
I can't see this playing everything in 4kWell 1080p games will be 4k.
My reaction:I was surprised they used Forza 6 instead of 7. This would have been the completely wrong event to announce Forza 7, but everything now points to a reveal at E3.
Seriously it is pointless announcing specs of consoles without showing footage of games and I know they were not going to but then why announce it? Basically indicates to me MS really do not have a huge amount of stuff in the pipeline for E3. I feel like scorpio is an admission from Microsoft they accept they are just not as good as Sony or Nintendo at game development. So instead of compete with them both they are using the most powerful game console to try and entice gamers back. Ultimately this E3 is going to be Power (Xbox) vs software (Sony) and really software always wins.
I was surprised they used Forza 6 instead of 7. This would have been the completely wrong event to announce Forza 7, but everything now points to a reveal at E3.They used Forza Apex because they didn't have a final Scorpio machine ready yet... just a machine they create that target Scorpio specs.
That'll be the first time since Forza 4.
E3 2017 countdown (http://vizioneck.com/forum/index.php?msg=194878)
I think they're just low on games this year.
My reaction: (http://i.imgur.com/IpDAgCi.gif)If they have nothing for E3... then why not save this for E3? Also, was the Pro Sonys admission that their games suck? I'm not sure why one iterative console screams terrible things about a company but the other wouldn't. We all knew these upgraded consoles were coming. MS is launching theirs a year later, of course it will be beefier.
Seriously it is pointless announcing specs of consoles without showing footage of games and I know they were not going to but then why announce it? Basically indicates to me MS really do not have a huge amount of stuff in the pipeline for E3. I feel like scorpio is an admission from Microsoft they accept they are just not as good as Sony or Nintendo at game development. So instead of compete with them both they are using the most powerful game console to try and entice gamers back. Ultimately this E3 is going to be Power (Xbox) vs software (Sony) and really software always wins.
I can't even with the gaf thread for this. Yes scorpio is more powerful than ps4 pro, but it's a year later so it better have been. And even then it's still gonna be held back by just being an evolved jaguar and isn't this massive jump people still seem to be clinging to on gaf. Seems that part is fine now that scorpio is using it. Pro having an ungraded Jaguar was the wrong move for sony back when it was announced. Funny how things change.Gaf is home to a significant number of stupid people, so there's really no news here.
Gaf is home to a significant number of stupid people, so there's really no news here.oh I know!! It's just so face palm worthy some of them are acting like this is better than most top of the line pc's
If they have nothing for E3... then why not save this for E3? Also, was the Pro Sonys admission that their games suck? I'm not sure why one iterative console screams terrible things about a company but the other wouldn't. We all knew these upgraded consoles were coming. MS is launching theirs a year later, of course it will be beefier.Because they will still have to announce the box,price and other stuff related to the box. If they really had more stuff to show they would have held an event in May prior to E3 with specs, showing the box and price and teasing 1 or 2 announcements for E3. Sony did not go all out on the Pro, it is merely an option for the consumer. They did not hype up the pro in the same way Xbox have hyped up Scorpio. Plus Sony's past E3 have shown of breadth of content that Xbox is fundamentally lacking. Since Gamescon 2015 they have only announced Forza Horizon 3, Dead Rising and State of Decay 2 as big announcements. Sony have nothing to prove whilst Xbox has everything to prove after such lacklustre E3's with minimal announcements. Not even showing any games or teasing them very much aligns with what insiders are saying that Xbox does not have a huge amount in the pipeline.
The specs are great for Scorpio but what's most exciting to me are the refinements and innovations DF spoke on. They didn't just wait for better hardware, they really seem to have designed it to work much better for gaming than the Xbox One.
People keep clinging to the idea that this is reaching 1070 performance. I really can't see how a top of the line really expensive graphics card is the same as scorpio.Yeah, I don't understand that logic. Besides, most people know a AMD TFlop doesn't equal a Nivida TFlop. But a card is more than just TF.
Anywho, I will have to see the price on this to decide when I might get it if at all. By the time I might get one the next console might be coming out. I'm looking to get a switch next anyway.
I will admit that the Xbox Scorpio specs are impressive. It can manage 6 teraflops, whereas the original Xbox One was just 1 massive flop.
— CEO Kaz Hirai (@KazHiraiCEO) April 6, 2017
I wonder if Scorpio will have problems with people confusing it for a next gen system. It's stupid how many PS fans are misinformed and think Sony needs to turn around and quickly announce the PS5.Honestly I think MS is banking on people being confused. It might help push some sales at first.
MS would be smart to include "XBOX One" in the name like the rumors suggest.
Honestly I think MS is banking on people being confused. It might help push some sales at first.Confusion is Microsoft's best tool. And it shows how desperate they are. they confuse people into thinking they're outselling the ps4 WW using pr from NPD. They confused people into thinking the xbox slim was a 4k gaming comsole. And I'm sure they'll try and confuse people into thinking this is next gen.
I Think this reveal was actually really smart for overselling the system. DF made the cpu sound non Jaguar so the Zen group are more ok with it. The narrative of Forza 6 being 4k 60 fps without optimization or full GPU usage is also really selling the idea that this is a 4k 60 fps machine.The DF reveal was a PR move even AnandTech said that... like they just reveled exactly what MS said to them without doubt or try to look if it is practical what MS said to them.
By the time E3 comes around and 30fps games are shown, the devs will get the blame instead of the hardware.
Well, some of the details have come to the surface through a PR reveal with Eurogamer's Digital Foundry.AnandTech is pretty used to PR slides with these type of info but what matter what the end is the result of the system with real test done... AMD, nVidia, Intel do a lot of these PR reveal in PC world.
MS has been in touch to say that hardware DX12 in the command processor is also present in Xbox One. Update in here: https://t.co/JC6BwaANU8 pic.twitter.com/OTssUrrwUW
— Digital Foundry (@digitalfoundry) April 7, 2017
Beat me to it.No HDMI in too.
I'm on the podcast but this forum will hate it. I'm trying to REALLY oversimplify the DF piece for a more casual audience. Don't expect anything new really, it's a recap. Unless you like to hear me and Larry banter with each other.
Richard has said he's got more stories coming. I do not have insight into when those will hit. Possibly this weekend?
And it wasn't publicized too much yesterday, but Gamasutra will also have a deep-dive on our development work for those that are into that sort of thing. That hits next week I believe and I think people will dig hearing about how developers will create for both Xbox One and Scorpio.
So yes, moar.
BTW he is pretty active on GAF again :DQuoteOriginally Posted by SyrusIt does not. Same port layout as Xbox One S.
(http://vizioneck.com/forum/showthread.php?p=233551476#post233551476)
Can you give an answer if the Scorpio will have a second HDMI Out for Audio??
No HDMI in too.HDMI in is on XBOX One S. It lacks a Kinect Port, that's what they mean.
NeoGAF - View Single Post - Digital Foundry: Xbox Scorpio (http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=233552290&postcount=5973)
It does not. Same port layout as Xbox One S.
BTW he is pretty active on GAF again :D
GAF thought it was a Secret Sauce of Scorpio and I said to my friends this was only how it works with low level APIs... DF now updated the article to say Xbox One already has the same DX12 feature into the hardware (it is just part of the GCN where Polaris improved over the XB1/PS4... Pro uses Polaris too).I didn't expect that, but it's pretty interesting. Wonder why Digital Foundry screwed up with that part?MS has been in touch to say that hardware DX12 in the command processor is also present in Xbox One. Update in here: https://t.co/JC6BwaANU8 pic.twitter.com/OTssUrrwUW
— Digital Foundry (@digitalfoundry) April 7, 2017
But Kinect used a second HDMI out?No Kinect used a custom port.
No Kinect used a custom port.He is talking about some HDMI that original XB1 has bit S and Scorpio not.
Confusion is Microsoft's best tool. And it shows how desperate they are. they confuse people into thinking they're outselling the ps4 WW using pr from NPD. They confused people into thinking the xbox slim was a 4k gaming comsole. And I'm sure they'll try and confuse people into thinking this is next gen.umm no. what you are saying is just way out there. yes, MS's PR department has said some rather ridiculous spins, but thats their job, to pain the company in the best position possible. but implying that their entire marketing efforts are based on "confusion" is simply false and rather ridiculous. they have done a solid job into repositioning the xbox one as a dedicated game machine since their stumbles with that early in the gen. and while the state of their first party now isnt all that, they did provide a range of exclusives to help position the console in line with what they are trying to sell. SO, Halo 5, Gears, Forza Horizon2/3, Forza 6 are some games they used to push the console. not just "confusion".
One thing they can't confuse people with though. And that's all the awesome Playstation and Nintendo exclusives aren't on xbox.
I'm finding it hard to be hyped for this when it's maximum is 6tf and my PC currently has a max of 33.9tf via SLI :P(http://i3.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/312/563/05d.jpg)
I'm finding it hard to be hyped for this when it's maximum is 6tf and my PC currently has a max of 33.9tf via SLI :PI remember when console at launch was at least on par with high-end PCs. 4.2TFs or 6TFs are mid-end PCs with RX480.
I remember when console at launch was at least on par with high-end PCs. 4.2TFs or 6TFs are mid-end PCs with RX480.It's just funny to me, because for a long time now Microsoft have been teasing the Scorpio like it's some incredible piece of hardware.
I'd guess MS's current plan is to coast off third party games and their giant franchises.Yeah I saw one of shinobi's tweets to someone saying they don't have much in the pipeline.
Sounds like they barely have any games coming up.
I'd guess MS's current plan is to coast off third party games and their giant franchises.Might as well make this post here. I've been thinking about it for a while.
Sounds like they barely have any games coming up.
Any news in the video or just the same found in articles???A lot more reasonable talk in my opinion. Very clearly states 30 fps games on XBO will still be 30 fps on Scorpio with rare exceptions.
I'm expecting Forza 7, Halo 6 and Ori 2 from MS' E3 this year, aside from that I'm drawing a total blank.Ori is a smaller game but it'd still make a good announcement.
Ori is a smaller game but it'd still make a good announcement.Ori 2 was leaked last year already, so it should be a lock I guess.
Let's see what devs does MS have?
Holy fudge I didn't realise it was this bad until I saw the wiki page.
-343
-Turn 10
-Rare
-Mojang
-The Coalition
So there probably won't be any first party surprises. An insider on GAF has also stated that Microsoft isn't publishing Playground's second IP so that's off the table.
Might as well make this post here. I've been thinking about it for a while.Shinobi said a while back he would be amazed if Rare announced their new game as it is basically in prototype stage but hey who knows, MS do love their CGI for games that have barely entered development.
I already went through and made a list for every announced XBOX exclusive going into E3 and found this year had half of what every other year had, but how many games need to be announced at E3 to make up for that?
Here are all the announced exclusives after every E3.
E3 2013:
Forza 5
Ryse
Quantum Break
Killer Instinct
Project Spark
Kinect Sports Rivals
D4
Halo 5
Dead Rising 3
Titanfall
Sunset Overdrive
(11)
E3 2014:
Quantum Break
Project Spark
D4
Halo 5
Sunset Overdrive
Fable Legends
Forza Horizon 2
Dance Central Spotlight
Phantom Dust
Crackdown 3
Scalebound
Shape Up
(12)
E3 2015:
Quantum Break
Halo 5
Fable Legends
Crackdown 3
Scalebound
Forza 6
Rise of the Tomb Raider
ReCore
Sea of Thieves
Gears 4
(10)
E3 2016:
Crackdown 3
Scalebound
ReCore
Sea of Thieves
Gears 4
Halo Wars 2
Dead Rising 4
Forza Horizon 3
State of Decay 2
(9)
Predicting E3 2017:
Crackdown 3
Sea of Thieves
State of Decay 2
*Forza 7
*Halo 6
*New Rare game, hinted by Shinobi
*Third party exclusive
I'm sure I'm missing some but more or less MS needs to announce 6 new big exclusives to tie with last year, and 8 new exclusives to match their average. Will be super interesting to see if they've been holding back and want to announce a lot of far off games for Scorpio or if XBOX exclusives aren't a priority anymore.
Shinobi said a while back he would be amazed if Rare announced their new game as it is basically in prototype stage but hey who knows, MS do love their CGI for games that have barely entered development.Not to mention I suspect Rare is on the chopping block. If Sea of Thieves doesn't go over well, I can see Microsoft shutting them down. They probably don't want them investing time and resources into a project they might not even be wanting soon.
Ori is a smaller game but it'd still make a good announcement.Got a link to this?
Let's see what devs does MS have?
Holy fudge I didn't realise it was this bad until I saw the wiki page.
-343
-Turn 10
-Rare
-Mojang
-The Coalition
So there probably won't be any first party surprises. An insider on GAF has also stated that Microsoft isn't publishing Playground's second IP so that's off the table.
Got a link to this?Microsoft Studios - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Studios)
Not to mention I suspect Rare is on the chopping block. If Sea of Thieves doesn't go over well, I can see Microsoft shutting them down. They probably don't want them investing time and resources into a project they might not even be wanting soon.I think if MS closed RARE people lose their crud really. Lionhead annoyed a lot of but RARE? A historic studio of that caliber shutting down would be bad press for Xbox but also really highlight what an abject failure MS has been at managing studios. I feel they will keep RARE open just because if they did people would consider the future of Xbox and also they paid a lot of money for them too.
Microsoft Studios - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Studios)Sorry I meant to that Playground games comment by an insider.
Sorry I meant to that Playground games comment by an insider.That makes more sense ::)
QuoteOriginally Posted by EmiPrime2nd team at Playground is working on a multiplayer title, passed on by MS. As the post-mortem from Lionhead pointed at, MS higher ups told them during the pitch process there will never be a Table 4; don't pitch it.
(http://vizioneck.com/forum/showthread.php?p=233304237#post233304237)
If Playground Games are working on Forza Horizon 4 set in Japan and their new second studio is working on Fable 4 then y'all can put the lists away, I will have all I need.
Edit: multiplatform, not multiplayer. Sorry, dang autocorrect
What's table 4 and why won't there be another one?Fable
I think if MS closed RARE people lose their crud really. Lionhead annoyed a lot of but RARE? A historic studio of that caliber shutting down would be bad press for Xbox but also really highlight what an abject failure MS has been at managing studios. I feel they will keep RARE open just because if they did people would consider the future of Xbox and also they paid a lot of money for them too.Rare isn't what it used to be. There is no real caliber to that studio anymore. Go back over the last 12 years and look at the games they've made. Oh boy... some real high caliber stuff right there. The Killer Instinct reboot wasn't even developed by them. A lot of studios with long histories have closed down even when people thought it would never happen for one reason or another. Microsoft isn't going to keep a studio that's draining them of money and hasn't managed to produce or continue a legitimate hit franchise in over a decade. It wouldn't be like Sony closing Naughty Dog after a bad game.
Sorry I meant to that Playground games comment by an insider.
What the hell is with all this talk that Scorpio will deliver 4k textures, higher LOD's and be 4k native. I understand having higher textures cause of the higher amount of RAM, but to deliver all that and be native 4k is not gonna happen. Even a lot of the best of the best graphics cards struggle doing ultra everything with native 4k and stable fps. These people on gaf are straight up delusional.MS can probably allow 4k textures via DLC like it happens in PC.
4k textures are usually a good chunk larger as well which will likely drive up game sizes. Even optimized once we get to the point where games can use 4k textures everywhere the games will start being upwards of 100 gigs base without patches.
Rare isn't what it used to be. There is no real caliber to that studio anymore. Go back over the last 12 years and look at the games they've made. Oh boy... some real high caliber stuff right there. The Killer Instinct reboot wasn't even developed by them. A lot of studios with long histories have closed down even when people thought it would never happen for one reason or another. Microsoft isn't going to keep a studio that's draining them of money and hasn't managed to produce or continue a legitimate hit franchise in over a decade. It wouldn't be like Sony closing Naughty Dog after a bad game.I agree with you but RARE was one of their first studios they bought, it was to signal their intent in the gaming industry. To shut them down would signal their intent on putting less focus on gaming plus people are far more nostalgic about RARE than Lionhead or Press Play. It would not just be Xbox fans annoyed but also Nintendo and general gamers as a lot of people want to see them be free and make the games they want to make. But yeah if SOT bombs then i don't think many would be surprised if they got closed too.
I think you probably already missed the press highlighting Microsoft's failures when it was discovered that suddenly about 8 of their studios don't even exist anymore. This wouldn't be anything shocking. The sudden closure of Lionhead and Press Play when they were both in the middle of a project was already enough to bring to light the issues within Microsoft's internal studios, not to mention Twisted Pixel exercising its right to leave the company before the closures even came to light. Preceded further back by Bungie's departure, which brought forth a whirlwind of speculation and rumors. Closing Rare isn't going to be any bigger of a deal than any other closure. It would just be another victim.
I think you're grossly overestimating how much people care about Rare at this point. A lot of people have predicted Rare's imminent closure. Hell, there were people who were more surprised Lionhead got closed first. I was one of them. Microsoft's first party is already looked at as nothing more than Forza, Gears, Halo, and Minecraft. It's a popular thing among the community in general now to say that if you're not making a hit franchise for Microsoft, you're gonna get closed. If that happened to Rare tomorrow, you would mostly get a lot of "see... told ya".
MS can probably allow 4k textures via DLC like it happens in PC.Yeah thats what they were saying on gaf about having packs for them. But a lot of the delusional ones seem to think that scorpio will get literally all effects and textures at ultra/4k along with 4k native res. I just can not see that happen at all. At least this new thread about Anandtech breaking down the specs and the actual possibilities and compromises is level headed and most people aren't spouting the BS of getting performance of the best graphics cards out there: Anandtech breaks down Scorpio specs + predictions - NeoGAF (http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1359044)
4k native will happen only for few games like Forza.
Anandtech with their very well put together initial take on the Scorpio specs.http://www.anandtech.com/show/11250/...tails-revealed (http://www.anandtech.com/show/11250/microsofts-project-scorpio-more-hardware-details-revealed)
Take note of the last point especially, very interesting as I havent see any other outlet raise it.
On CPU coresQuoteAMD technically has several cores potentially available for Scorpio: Excavator (Bulldozer-based, as seen on 28nm), Jaguar-based (also from 28nm) or Zen based (seen on 14nm GF). While the latter is a design that has returned AMD to the high-end of x86 performance computing, offering high performance for reasonable power, a Zen design would be relatively quick turnaround from a consumer launch a month ago. Because of the time frame, even if Microsoft could go for Zen in the Scorpio, this would increase the base cost of the console by redesigning the cores on 16nm TSMC.GPU
In the Digital Foundary piece, Microsoft stated that the CPU portion of Scorpio has a 31% performance gain over the Xbox. This isn't IPC, this is just raw performance. Moving from Jaguar to Zen would be more than 60%, and actually the frequency difference between the 2.3 GHz in Scorpio and 1.75 GHz in Xbox One is exactly 31%. So we are dealing with a Jaguar-style core (although perhaps modified).
That being said, this is a custom x86 core. Microsoft could have requested specific IP blocks and features not present in the original Jaguar CPUs but present in things such as Zen, such as power management techniques. Typically a console shares DRAM between the CPU and GPU, so it might be something as simple as the CPU memory controller supporting GDDR5. So instead of seeing Zen coming to consoles, were seeing another crack at using Jaguar (or Jaguar+) but revised for a smaller process node to keep overall costs down and given that the main focus on a console is the GPU, thats entirely possible.
QuoteNow there is a bit of nuance here, as AMDs GPU architecture is offered piecemeal: the shader cores, the memory controllers, the display controllers, etc are all separate blocks that can be mixed and matches. This is how the PS4 Pro uses just parts of Vega. So its entirely possible that there are other bits and pieces in Scorpio that are newer than Polaris, however the all-important shader cores and ROP backends clearly point to Polaris.Memory subsystem
Diving into the specs a bit deeper, we do have the clockspeeds and configurations for both the GPU and the memory. Scorpios GPU is a 40 CU (2,560 SP) wide design a bit wider than the Radeon RX 480 which is a rather extensive upgrade over the original Xbox One. Ignoring clockspeeds for the moment (more in a sec), just the CU count itself is 3.33 times the 12 CUs in the original XB1. Similarly, Microsoft has doubled the number of ROP backends from 16 to 32. The ROP change is badly needed in order for Microsoft to reach their 4K goal, and it has been a pretty universal suspicion that the original XB1s 16 ROPs were a big part of the reason that major multiplatform games tend to go with 900p instead of a native 1080p.
Meanwhile on the clockspeed front, the new GPU is clocked at 1172MHz, giving Microsoft 6 TFLOPS right on the dot. This is a 37% clockspeed increase over the original XB1, and a 28% increase over the XB1S, which received a slight clockspeed bump of its own. These clockspeeds are well within the range of what the Polaris architecture can offer, and while not as conservative as Sonys design choices, should still be reasonably power efficient, though Im very much interested in seeing what total power consumption is like.
More importantly, combined with the much wider GPU, the impact to the various throughput metrics is staggering. Shader/texture throughput will be 4.58x the original XB1, and ROP throughput will be 2.75x. Microsoft had a very large gap to close from the original Xbox One if they wanted to do 4K, and they have certainly put together a design that is equally large to help close that gap. However with that said, with performance that, on paper, is slightly ahead of a Radeon RX 480, I expect were still going to see some compromises here to consistently hit Microsofts 4K goal. 6 TFLOPS often isnt enough for native 4K at current image quality levels, which means developers will have to resort to some clever optimizations or image scaling.
QuoteWhat makes things especially interesting though is that Microsoft didnt just switch out DDR3 for GDDR5, but theyre using a wider memory bus as well; expanding it by 50% to 384-bits wide. Not only does this even further expand the consoles memory bandwidth now to a total of 326GB/sec, or 4.8x the XB1s DDR3 but it means we have an odd mismatch between the ROP backends and the memory bus. Briefly, the ROP backends and memory bus are typically balanced 1-to-1 in a GPU, so a single memory controller will feed 1 or two ROP partitions. However in this case, we have a 384-bit bus feeding 32 ROPs, which is not a compatible mapping.
What this means is that at some level, Microsoft is running an additional memory crossbar in the SoC, which would be very similar to what AMD did back in 2012 with the Radeon HD 7970. Because the console SoC needs to split its memory bandwidth between the CPU and the GPU, things arent as cut and dry here as they are with discrete GPUs. But, at a high level, what we saw from the 7970 is that the extra bandwidth + crossbar setup did not offer much of a benefit over a straight-connected, lower bandwidth configuration. Accordingly, AMD has never done it again in their dGPUs. So I think it will be very interesting to see if developers can consistently consume more than 218GB/sec or so of bandwidth using the GPU.
-343 -HaloYep...
-Turn 10-Forza
-Rare-Games
-Mojang-Minecraft
-The Coalition-Gears
Rare isn't what it used to be. There is no real caliber to that studio anymore. Go back over the last 12 years and look at the games they've made. Oh boy... some real high caliber stuff right there. The Killer Instinct reboot wasn't even developed by them. A lot of studios with long histories have closed down even when people thought it would never happen for one reason or another. Microsoft isn't going to keep a studio that's draining them of money and hasn't managed to produce or continue a legitimate hit franchise in over a decade. It wouldn't be like Sony closing Naughty Dog after a bad game.
I think you probably already missed the press highlighting Microsoft's failures when it was discovered that suddenly about 8 of their studios don't even exist anymore. This wouldn't be anything shocking. The sudden closure of Lionhead and Press Play when they were both in the middle of a project was already enough to bring to light the issues within Microsoft's internal studios, not to mention Twisted Pixel exercising its right to leave the company before the closures even came to light. Preceded further back by Bungie's departure, which brought forth a whirlwind of speculation and rumors. Closing Rare isn't going to be any bigger of a deal than any other closure. It would just be another victim.
I think you're grossly overestimating how much people care about Rare at this point. A lot of people have predicted Rare's imminent closure. Hell, there were people who were more surprised Lionhead got closed first. I was one of them. Microsoft's first party is already looked at as nothing more than Forza, Gears, Halo, and Minecraft. It's a popular thing among the community in general now to say that if you're not making a hit franchise for Microsoft, you're gonna get closed. If that happened to Rare tomorrow, you would mostly get a lot of "see... told ya".
Yeah thats what they were saying on gaf about having packs for them. But a lot of the delusional ones seem to think that scorpio will get literally all effects and textures at ultra/4k along with 4k native res. I just can not see that happen at all. At least this new thread about Anandtech breaking down the specs and the actual possibilities and compromises is level headed and most people aren't spouting the BS of getting performance of the best graphics cards out there: Anandtech breaks down Scorpio specs + predictions - NeoGAF (http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1359044)I didn't know that about their memory bandwidth, but at least that's not too problematic. XBO needed devs to optimize for the ram setup in order to get good results, while with this devs only need to optimize to get great results.
That shame will come back though in that thread eventually.
GPUMemory subsystem
I remember when console at launch was at least on par with high-end PCs. 4.2TFs or 6TFs are mid-end PCs with RX480.Yeah but games are starting to reach that limit. The ps5 could launch with 1000TF but the games wouldn't look any better then if it launched with TF.
I didn't know that about their memory bandwidth, but at least that's not too problematic. XBO needed devs to optimize for the ram setup in order to get good results, while with this devs only need to optimize to get great results.I believe MS choose this type of bus because they needs about 250GB/s for GPU while the rest will be used by CPU... that is why I believe the issue Anandtech listed with the same bus in old GPU that uses all the bandwidth won't be a issue for Scorpio.
Yeah but games are starting to reach that limit. The ps5 could launch with 1000TF but the games wouldn't look any better then if it launched with TF.Nah, disagree there are benefits even graphically yet. Framerate, resolution.
There's only so close we can get to the limit and the law of diminishing returns etc. There's very little point launching equal to a high end pc because it will be a rip off and the games won't get a boost worthy of the extra cost.The cost of high end consoles is a bit of a different issue. It's just much harder to get powerful consoles that rival PCs.
Nah, disagree there are benefits even graphically yet. Framerate, resolution.Back then it was expensive to even have any sort of home PC. Nowadays I think a larger percentage of cost can go into graphics.
Even ignoring graphics, there's lots of reason for upgrading. AI, physics, and a lot more.
The cost of high end consoles is a bit of a different issue. It's just much harder to get powerful consoles that rival PCs.
Those were crazy times by comparison.
PS2 even was beyond high end PC, believe it or not.
Back then it was expensive to even have any sort of home PC. Nowadays I think a larger percentage of cost can go into graphics.This gives me an idea!
I agree with you but RARE was one of their first studios they bought, it was to signal their intent in the gaming industry. To shut them down would signal their intent on putting less focus on gaming plus people are far more nostalgic about RARE than Lionhead or Press Play. It would not just be Xbox fans annoyed but also Nintendo and general gamers as a lot of people want to see them be free and make the games they want to make. But yeah if SOT bombs then i don't think many would be surprised if they got closed too.I would say that Microsoft's significant reduction of its internal studios down to a mere handful with many of the studios they had not producing a single title for Xbox One was indication enough of Microsoft's intent. I don't think Microsoft cares about nostalgic Nintendo fans or the kneejerk reactions of gamers who won't care about Rare's closure even a week after it happens. They're not going to keep what they consider to be a lackluster studio just to avoid "angering" a bunch of people who haven't even played a Rare game in ages. Not to mention, the IPs won't cease to exist. Just the studio that originally created them that doesn't even make them anymore. Microsoft would probably point that out if they felt they had to. Pretty much everyone who made Rare what it was moved on years ago. Even if Rare did go free, no one should expect them to be what they were. Save tens of millons of dollars by dropping a poorly performing studio or keep spending that money because you're worried about people who weren't buying your product anyways?
Yeah but games are starting to reach that limit. The ps5 could launch with 1000TF but the games wouldn't look any better then if it launched with TF.I was discussing this with my girlfriend recently that due diminishing returns games from this gen will still look amazing in 10 years time. Horizon in 10 years time is still going to look unbelievable and play well but you compare that to the original Assassins Creed which came out in 2007, even that game probably still holds up to play now visually and animation wise is decent. All games this gen should look graphically amazing and graphics should no longer be the difference but it should be all about the games now.
There's only so close we can get to the limit and the law of diminishing returns etc. There's very little point launching equal to a high end pc because it will be a rip off and the games won't get a boost worthy of the extra cost.
I was discussing this with my girlfriend recently that due diminishing returns games from this gen will still look amazing in 10 years time. Horizon in 10 years time is still going to look unbelievable and play well but you compare that to the original Assassins Creed which came out in 2007, even that game probably still holds up to play now visually and animation wise is decent. All games this gen should look graphically amazing and graphics should no longer be the difference but it should be all about the games now.the turn to pysically based rendering means things are going to look pretty good and realistic from now on. tech, tech and tools will improve but we reached a point where things look good for 3D in general, not just games. there is still a lot of way to go, and eventually Horizon and Uncharted 4 will look dated. but it will take a longer while to do so.
I don't think Horizon or Uncharted will ever become dated like a lot of PS2 games did.They most likely will. Certainly in terms of their gameplay at least.
They most likely will. Certainly in terms of their gameplay at least.Gameplay for sure.
Both could have better graphics too, if we're being honest. We just don't see it well because we haven't had games that look better.
LAunch ps4 games already look dated to me.This.
So, what I'm getting here is, Scorpio is a good machine and very capable but Digital Foundry oversold it a little. Kinda just read off a PR sheet instead of using their expertise to explain how it will work in the real world.I think Digital Foundry got a little excited having an exclusive showing. It would have been cool if they were able to get more hardware specifics but PR numbers are still more interesting than nothing.
I think Digital Foundry got a little excited having an exclusive showing. It would have been cool if they were able to get more hardware specifics but PR numbers are still more interesting than nothing.The bit about dx12 being baked into the chip will make it much more efficient. Did MS say it's a feature already used on Xbox One? How significant is that compared to the PS4/Pro? DF made it sound like a huge new feature.
A deep dive with the lead designer would be cool at E3.
The bit about dx12 being baked into the chip will make it much more efficient. Did MS say it's a feature already used on Xbox One? How significant is that compared to the PS4/Pro? DF made it sound like a huge new feature.Yeah it's nothing new and DF fubared with that part. Scorpio might be a bit more advanced with it than OG XBO, but nothing significant.
Yeah it's nothing new and DF fubared with that part. Scorpio might be a bit more advanced with it than OG XBO, but nothing significant.That was the only feature they mentioned that I thought really separated it from the Pro but turns out everybody is already doing it. How did DF not pick up on it? It's a pretty big oversight.
PS4 and Pro already have the equivalent.
That was the only feature they mentioned that I thought really separated it from the Pro but turns out everybody is already doing it. How did DF not pick up on it? It's a pretty big oversight.DF from what I know is focused more on analysing games than hardware itself. Probably just didn't know.
MS has been in touch to say that hardware DX12 in the command processor is also present in Xbox One. Update in here: https://t.co/JC6BwaANU8 pic.twitter.com/OTssUrrwUW
— Digital Foundry (@digitalfoundry) April 7, 2017
DF from what I know is focused more on analysing games than hardware itself. Probably just didn't know.They test a lot of hardware.
At least they updated that part:MS has been in touch to say that hardware DX12 in the command processor is also present in Xbox One. Update in here: https://t.co/JC6BwaANU8 pic.twitter.com/OTssUrrwUW
— Digital Foundry (@digitalfoundry) April 7, 2017
They test a lot of hardware.YEah but I meant they test hardware by running games. They aren't hardware engineers who'd know everything from the designs.
They test a lot of hardware.AnandTech did a better overview of hardware capabilities of Scorpio.
LAunch ps4 games already look dated to me.I don't think people realize just how much better looking things can get. I remember when people were saying "Wii graphics are enough"... boy do they look foolish. I consider Horizon the best looking title released, modded or otherwise, yet it can look so much more better. We still have a long way before we can get there.
I don't think people realize just how much better looking things can get. I remember when people were saying "Wii graphics are enough"... boy do they look foolish. I consider Horizon the best looking title released, modded or otherwise, yet it can look so much more better. We still have a long way before we can get there.just look at avatar, transformers or 3D movies like Zootopia or Kung Fu panda 3. there are is still A LOT of way to go. specially when it comes to draw distances and foliage. i think character models in Uncharted 4 and The Order have done a great deal of improvement and are the closest thing to realistic CGI we got in games. PBR is certainly helping but this is the first gen to actually use it, there will no doubt be improvements, and big ones in the years to come.
Thats a great feature to have, but it so limited that almost no one will get use out of it.You will probably need a monitor to use it.
You will probably need a monitor to use it.Yes, and a monitor that has uses it over hdmi. Most use it over display port.
Yes, and a monitor that has uses it over hdmi. Most use it over display port.You need to check if it support freesync from 30fps... most cheap monitors only supports from 45-50fps that for consoles is a deal breaker.
Well i just checked amazon and the prices hace dropped quite a bit.
27 inch free sync 1m response for 180. Not bad.
Turn out Pro has more Vega features than Scorpio.That's a long article. What tells us it has less features?
Inside the Scorpio Engine: the processor architecture deep dive • Eurogamer.net (http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2017-the-scorpio-engine-in-depth)
That's a long article. What tells us it has less features?The CPU differences from a standard Jaguar are better clock frequency and some memory control tricks no explained.
edt: I see scorpio lacks the FP16 optimization Pro has. Not seeing anything else though.
Turn out Pro has more Vega features than Scorpio.Maybe this is why Scorpio was having trouble hitting it's power? Did MS have to raise the clock speed past what they were expecting to get to their goal?
Inside the Scorpio Engine: the processor architecture deep dive • Eurogamer.net (http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2017-the-scorpio-engine-in-depth)
(http://i.imgur.com/HQxzUcC.jpg)Scorpio size above XBO S size.