Mass Effect Andromeda Review Thread 73 OC (113 reviews), 70 MC (54 reviews)

Started by the-pi-guy, Mar 20, 2017, 02:24 PM

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Xevross

Mass Effect Andromeda's poor handling of LGBT - NeoGAF

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Yes, another Andromeda thread, but I feel it's about issues worth discussing, since BioWare usually tries to tackle LGBT issues to some degree in their games. However, there might possibly be multiple problematic showings about how the LGBT are handled in their newest Mass Effect game. Obviously the game is releasing only just now, so all of the information in the OP might be different in the actual proper game, although this seems unlikely. Note: Very Light Andromeda spoilers (one achievement with no story spoilers) will follow. --- So, Mass Effect Andromeda has a trophy/achievement called "The Matchmaker - Complete Romances with three different characters across all playthroughs". If you don't do these trophy/achievement, you basically won't be able to 100% of the game. The crux of the problem with this achievement is that it seems the game has a very varied number of romance options for characters with different orientations. Gaffer Harlequin notes on the issue:
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Originally Posted by Harlequin
 
 

 
 So according to the official guide and reviewers, some of the datamining was incorrect. Gay Scott only gets two romance options as opposed to straight Scott's five, gay Sara's four and straight Sara's three, neither of which are squadmates and neither of which have unique faces (just character creator ones). This also means that people playing as gay Scott won't be able to get the romance trophy/achievement without turning him bi. Good job, BW, good job.../

 
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Originally Posted by Harlequin
 
 

 
 The problem isn't just the achievement, it's the picture you get when you put all of those things together. I mean, of course, straight guys will get more options, I was never expecting them not to, but there are so many things that just scream half-arsed afterthought and "gays  are second-class citizens" here. We've got less than half the number of options that straight guys have, we don't have any squadmate option (who get significantly more exposition, dialogue, etc. than non-suadmates), we don't have any option with a unique face, all of the gay male naughtiness scenes are apparently fade-to-black whereas quite a few of the others are fully animated and include nudity and they put an achievement in the game that everyone but gay males can get without switching to a different gender or orientation (which in and of itself wouldn't be a problem but the fact that only gay men are forced to do it makes it one).

 
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Originally Posted by Harlequin
 
 

 
 I've already explained that it's not about the achievement specifically, it's about a bunch of little things which wouldn't be much of a problem on their own but paint the picture of all the gay male content being a half-arsed afterthought when put together.

 
This information has not been verified, so I'm not treating it as an absolute fact. I haven't played Andromeda myself, either. But if it is true, this is quite a weird oversight from BioWare's part, because it basically means that if a player wants to roleplay exclusively gay male protagonist (or is a gay male themselves, and wants their character to reflect that), it will be impossible to 100% the game without also romancing a female character at some point, turning their character to bi in the process. Noting that due to the nature of the Asari in this game, this could be potentially circled around by romancing an Asari. It's also worrisome that the romance options for the Gay Male Ryder are not even squadmates, and more minor characters instead.  The problem isn't solely about the Achievement either, it's that the gay representation in general seems to be quite problematic (fade-to-black naughtiness scenes, etc.)So why is it problematic? Well, imagine it the other way around. The players who would want to play as solely straight male Ryder wouldn't be able to Platinum Andromeda without a play-through where they have to romance another man. There would most likely be lot of outrage about forcing players to choose a gay male option if they want to platinum the game. It makes gay male Ryder players feel like second-class citizens, if this information is true. And it's such a weird oversight from BioWare's part. --- Sadly, this doesn't seem to be the only problem the game has with LGBT representation.  The game has a transgender character introduced, but is then handled rather poorly:
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The character, when asked why they went to Andromeda, quickly seems to deadname themselves. Deadnaming in general is usually seen as a form of transphobia:
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The Character can be seen in the Giant Bomb Quick Look, for instance. ---  The game is only releasing right now, so we don't know for sure what extenct BioWare has went for LGBT representation. But the signs seen so far seem to be rather worrysome, especially after Dragon Age games and even Mass Effect 3, that had a gay squadmate option. //Edit: Added more post quotes from Harlequin for context.
 
Okay, what the fudge? Bioware has gone from being amazing leaders in LGBT representation to seemingly only shoving it in the game because fans expect it now. This is really upsetting.

EA is never getting my money for this game. I dodged a bullet

BananaKing

Ah yes. Space sci fi has been quite disappointing. Hopefully Destiny 2 can change that
yeah after Destiny 1 im waiting at least a year for the "Full edition". those DLC packs are a scam.

nnodley

I will say that the game is not making me itch to play like Horizon did.  I don't think any game will till TLOU 2.

Raven

I will say that the game is not making me itch to play like Horizon did.  I don't think any game will till TLOU 2.

Same here. I'm not getting that overwhelming desire to run home and play more. The combat just does not feel satisfying. I understand it's early and things get more interesting later, but after playing Horizon, Nier, and even FF15, this game just lacks weight and satisfying results in its early combat. It feels like playing whack-a-mole with a laser pointer.

Visuals are all over the dang place. In some moments they are brilliant. In others I just can't help but wonder how they managed to screw up that badly. So many faces are not just devoid of emotion but for crud's sake the lack of certain textures compared to my character makes me feel like I'm a lone human in a universe full of Barbie and Ken dolls.

The banter between me and my squadmates is awesome and I'm liking the more important characters. However, the overall writing so far just leaves me stunned. Not in a good way. I can't say anything without spoiling but I will give one example. It's shoddy writing to force a situation to be even more dramatic by making highly intelligent people be incredibly wasteful of resources long before they knew more were on the way and when they already discovered trouble.

nnodley

Same here. I'm not getting that overwhelming desire to run home and play more. The combat just does not feel satisfying. I understand it's early and things get more interesting later, but after playing Horizon, Nier, and even FF15, this game just lacks weight and satisfying results in its early combat. It feels like playing whack-a-mole with a laser pointer.

Visuals are all over the dang place. In some moments they are brilliant. In others I just can't help but wonder how they managed to screw up that badly. So many faces are not just devoid of emotion but for crud's sake the lack of certain textures compared to my character makes me feel like I'm a lone human in a universe full of Barbie and Ken dolls.

The banter between me and my squadmates is awesome and I'm liking the more important characters. However, the overall writing so far just leaves me stunned. Not in a good way. I can't say anything without spoiling but I will give one example. It's shoddy writing to force a situation to be even more dramatic by making highly intelligent people be incredibly wasteful of resources long before they knew more were on the way and when they already discovered trouble.
The combat is very mass effecty though, at least I think so.  So that's great and with the added jet boost I like it even better.  But yeah horizon is league above in combat.  I agree with the graphics.  Everything in the ark and nexus looks off for some reason.  The first planet looks great though. Some of the skin on some NPC's look devoid of any sort of extra detail and specular.  Some just look like flat diffuse faces. I'm not far and just got to the nexus so not sure if I've been through the part in the story you are talking about.  So far I'm intrigued by the new aliens and the tech.  We shall see once i get farther.  

I do think if you like Mass Effect you will like the game.  I just wish it didn't go towards the open world environments and was more like ME 2 and 3.

nnodley

Alright now we are getting somewhere now that I'm controlling the Tempest!!  This is the mass effect i loved!  Tempest is awesome!

BananaKing

Alright now we are getting somewhere now that I'm controlling the Tempest!!  This is the mass effect i loved!  Tempest is awesome!
So now that you got it, how does fair?

Legend

Mass Effect Andromeda's poor handling of LGBT - NeoGAF
This information has not been verified, so I'm not treating it as an absolute fact. I haven't played Andromeda myself, either. But if it is true, this is quite a weird oversight from BioWare's part, because it basically means that if a player wants to roleplay exclusively gay male protagonist (or is a gay male themselves, and wants their character to reflect that), it will be impossible to 100% the game without also romancing a female character at some point, turning their character to bi in the process. Noting that due to the nature of the Asari in this game, this could be potentially circled around by romancing an Asari. It's also worrisome that the romance options for the Gay Male Ryder are not even squadmates, and more minor characters instead.  The problem isn't solely about the Achievement either, it's that the gay representation in general seems to be quite problematic (fade-to-black naughtiness scenes, etc.)So why is it problematic? Well, imagine it the other way around. The players who would want to play as solely straight male Ryder wouldn't be able to Platinum Andromeda without a play-through where they have to romance another man. There would most likely be lot of outrage about forcing players to choose a gay male option if they want to platinum the game. It makes gay male Ryder players feel like second-class citizens, if this information is true. And it's such a weird oversight from BioWare's part. --- Sadly, this doesn't seem to be the only problem the game has with LGBT representation.  The game has a transgender character introduced, but is then handled rather poorly: The character, when asked why they went to Andromeda, quickly seems to deadname themselves. Deadnaming in general is usually seen as a form of transphobia:The Character can be seen in the Giant Bomb Quick Look, for instance. ---  The game is only releasing right now, so we don't know for sure what extenct BioWare has went for LGBT representation. But the signs seen so far seem to be rather worrysome, especially after Dragon Age games and even Mass Effect 3, that had a gay squadmate option. //Edit: Added more post quotes from Harlequin for context.
 

Okay, what the fudge? Bioware has gone from being amazing leaders in LGBT representation to seemingly only shoving it in the game because fans expect it now. This is really upsetting.

EA is never getting my money for this game. I dodged a bullet
With all the other downgrades compared to past games, it's not suprising they dropped the ball there too.

Xevross

With all the other downgrades compared to past games, it's not suprising they dropped the ball there too.
You're right. Its just this bit is especially disappointing to me

nnodley

So now that you got it, how does fair?
The tempest itself is awesome.  So much more interesting than the normandy and everything is accessible without having to us an elevator.  The windows in the bridge to see the actual area of Helius you are in is probably one of the coolest things they have added.  Galaxy map is super cool and sleek.   Also just got the nomad too, which is amazing to control.  It feels weighty yet light and adding in the six wheel controls is pretty cool, but haven't done much exploring with it.   Scanning planets and anomalies is back a lot like ME2, but it's pulled back a bit with most scanning done on the planets you can explore.

Now for the game as a whole.  It's not doing anything new at all. It's mass effect at its core for sure.  Sure they might have dropped the ball on some things, but at least for me it's not a big deal.  Understandable for some others though.   It's not looking to be anything spectacular story wise, but I can easily say the alien technology they come across is super intriguing and is what is driving me to move forward the most.  And to learn more about the new alien races.   Combat is pretty amazing for Mass Effect.  The ability to change profiles anytime opens up so much more possibilities and the reason they added that is actually explained and is not just shoehorned in just because.  Jet boost is so good and one of the best additions to mobility and combat.  Other than that I'm not far enough in to give much more impressions.   I'm 5 hours in and only 11% completion.

You're right. Its just this bit is especially disappointing to me
So the problem is that they don't allow a male ryder to romance any of the male squad mates? Only secondary NPC's?

nnodley

@Xevross ,

Couple posts saying that someone that worked on the game is saying it's a bug and will be looked into.  Now if thats true who knows, but maybe they will sort it out.



I'm not seeing the tweet they are talking about so who knows.

Xevross

So the problem is that they don't allow a male ryder to romance any of the male squad mates? Only secondary NPC's?
Yep, and the problem is what this means. They don't get any detailed scenes or special missions, so it doesn't mean as much.
@Xevross ,

Couple posts saying that someone that worked on the game is saying it's a bug and will be looked into.  Now if thats true who knows, but maybe they will sort it out.



I'm not seeing the tweet they are talking about so who knows.
I hope it is a bug, because it'd be so upsetting for them to have gone from Dragon Age Inquisition to this.

nnodley

Yep, and the problem is what this means. They don't get any detailed scenes or special missions, so it doesn't mean as much.I hope it is a bug, because it'd be so upsetting for them to have gone from Dragon Age Inquisition to this.
Hmm, that's crazy really.   Yeah the fact Liam is not romance-able by either male or female ryder is also kind of weird too.  Cause even in ME3, maybe ME2 as well, wasn't jacob able to be romanced by male or female shepard?  Liam really is the only major male squadmate so it's weird they don't have it both ways.

Here looks like Bioware was having some meetings on the issue.  Hopefully thats true though and they want to fix it.

NeoGAF - View Single Post -  Mass Effect Andromeda's poor handling of LGBT

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Originally Posted by Harlequin
 
 

 
 Yeah, but everyone says stupid shame once in a while. They offered an apology so let's meet them halfway and accept it. On an unrelated note, the game's lead designer claims on Twitter that he's had a meeting about the M/M romance issues. Not entirely sure if I'm buying it but if it's true (and if they talked about more than just lowering the requirement for the achievement to two romances LOL), then that seems like a good first step at least. (Of course, this never should've even been an issue in the first place but it'd still be appreciated if they somehow managed to make it up to all the gay Scott players.)https://twitter.com/tibermoon/status/844302426685558784

 
Thank you for accepting :)
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Now we have to get them to make a statement and suggest they fix this and add the need/wanted content.
 

Xevross

Well that's promising but I'm not going to get me hopes up about anything. I'll just wait and see

nnodley

Well that's promising but I'm not going to get me hopes up about anything. I'll just wait and see
Yeah it could just be nothing but them trying to make a statement on the issue and nothing else.

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