How do you feel about character deaths?

Started by the-pi-guy, Aug 01, 2019, 02:38 AM

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the-pi-guy

Aug 01, 2019, 02:38 AM Last Edit: Aug 01, 2019, 02:41 AM by the-pi-guy
In stories, a lot of times an author will shift your expectations by killing someone off, because we usually expect that the hero will be successful.  Because of that, there are some people who seem to feel like a character dying can basically be utilized as good storytelling.

For a bit of context, in one show that I enjoy, a lot of people died, and they were brought back to life.  This isn't horribly out of place for the show, it's an anime where exchanging your life for a different one is part of the possiblity of the world, and it was shown several times before. 

For a bit more context, I've seen people suggest complete re-writes of this arc.  Despite substantial rewrites, they still keep the part where the people die, only changing that they stay dead.

It seems strange because it feels like death is viewed by some as an incredibly important part of the story.

For me personally, I usually hate deaths in a story. 
I just imagine the characters being real people, and for example, I hate that character X won't be able to tell character Y about his parents, and I hate that he won't see what character Y grows into. 

Perhaps the thing I really hate about death the most in a story, is that it cuts down on the possibilities of where the story can go.  An abrupt stop, with all potential futures gone. 

What do you think?  We're there some deaths you especially liked or disliked?

Dr. Pezus

In stories, a lot of times an author will shift your expectations by killing someone off, because we usually expect that the hero will be successful.  Because of that, there are some people who seem to feel like a character dying can basically be utilized as good storytelling.

For a bit of context, in one show that I enjoy, a lot of people died, and they were brought back to life.  This isn't horribly out of place for the show, it's an anime where exchanging your life for a different one is part of the possiblity of the world, and it was shown several times before.  

For a bit more context, I've seen people suggest complete re-writes of this arc.  Despite substantial rewrites, they still keep the part where the people die, only changing that they stay dead.

It seems strange because it feels like death is viewed by some as an incredibly important part of the story.

For me personally, I usually hate deaths in a story.  
I just imagine the characters being real people, and for example, I hate that character X won't be able to tell character Y about his parents, and I hate that he won't see what character Y grows into.  

Perhaps the thing I really hate about death the most in a story, is that it cuts down on the possibilities of where the story can go.  An abrupt stop, with all potential futures gone.  

What do you think?  We're there some deaths you especially liked or disliked?
It's an abrupt stop for that particular dead character but it can bring other characters' stories in new directions

the-pi-guy

It's an abrupt stop for that particular dead character but it can bring other characters' stories in new directions
I know.  But it still kind of frustrates me.  

Legend

Aug 08, 2019, 12:03 AM Last Edit: Aug 08, 2019, 12:05 AM by Legend
I dislike them mostly because they are done poorly.

Major game of thrones spoilers showing when they are done good.

Spoiler for Game of Thrones:
<br>Red Wedding<br><div style="margin:20px; margin-top:5px"><div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px"><b>Spoiler</b> for <i>Hidden</i>: <input type="button" value="Show" style="width:60px;font-size:10px;margin:0px;padding:0px;" onClick="if (this.parentNode.parentNode.getElementsByTagName('div')[1].getElementsByTagName('div')[0].style.display != '') { this.parentNode.parentNode.getElementsByTagName('div')[1].getElementsByTagName('div')[0].style.display = ''; this.value = 'Hide'; } else { this.parentNode.parentNode.getElementsByTagName('div')[1].getElementsByTagName('div')[0].style.display = 'none'; this.value = 'Show'; }"></div><div class="alt2" style="margin: 0px; padding: 6px; border: 1px inset;"><div style="display: none;"><br>One of the greatest moments in television history.<br><br>It wasn&#39;t just that the &quot;good guys&quot; lost, but that the experience was rewarding to watch. I rewatched the episode recently and one of the things I picked up on was that they played with the viewer&#39;s emotions and expectations. Initially it looked like a horrible event where &quot;just&quot; an unborn baby was killed. There was a huge amount of shock in the scene, but everything telegraphed that there was a way out, an escape.<br><br>Then right as the show starts implementing this escape, it fails and everyone dies.<br><br>It&#39;s so good imo because the show teases something crazy and then follows through with it.<br></div></div></div><br><br>



An example of a bad death imo would be almost anything in the recent Marvel movies. Death with consequences can be a really really powerful tool. Death without them just feels cheap.

Spoiler for Hidden:
Gamora, Black Widow, Thanos, Loki, Nebula and everyone snapped for example. Their deaths are used in the moment but are mostly irrelevant long term. Fine for setting up things but poor imo when viewed in isolation.


Another good death I liked was from the Amazing Spiderman 2.

Spoiler for Hidden:
<br>Gwen Stacy had such a great death. Similar to my got example, the scene tricked viewers into thinking it&#39;d be ok. Then the movie really focused on just how suck her death was.<br>


Another meh death was from Logan.

Spoiler for Hidden:
<br>Both the deaths felt forced, as in the movie decided they should be dead by the end. <br>

the-pi-guy

I think the problem I have is that I take fictional deaths too personally

Xevross

Aug 15, 2019, 12:01 PM Last Edit: Aug 15, 2019, 12:03 PM by Xevross
What Legend said. Usually they're not done great but the first half of GoT is an excellent example of doing character deaths well. They're all meaningful and have a big impact on the world and story, and they also happen as a result of character flaws and mistakes meaning they're perfectly grounded in the world. They make for huge shocking moments which feel totally earned and leave big lasting consequences on the world and the characters going forward.

I guess the second half of GoT provides lots of examples of how not to do character deaths, with consequences being non-existent or quickly swept under the rug and meaningful buildup also being non-existent for most.

About the marvel ones

Spoiler for Hidden:
The snapped thing was great imo. Sure they didn&#39;t stay dead but it made for a shocking cliffhanger and it had plenty of consequences. If it wasn&#39;t for the snap we wouldn&#39;t have lost Iron Man, Black Widow and Cap from the world. We&#39;ve already seen in Spidey FFH that this has consequences for characters and the world. Losing Loki was big for Thor&#39;s character and I hope we see more of that in Thor 4. Gamora is a huge death with big consequences for Quill and the Guardians!<br><br>Just because we haven&#39;t seen all the consequences yet doesn&#39;t mean there aren&#39;t any. And I&#39;d argue Endgame and Spidey FFH have done a great job so far of showing the consequences of everything that happened. One I&#39;d agree on is Black Widow, her death was kind of meaningless in the end and people moved on quickly, that&#39;s my biggest gripe with Endgame.

Legend

What Legend said. Usually they're not done great but the first half of GoT is an excellent example of doing character deaths well. They're all meaningful and have a big impact on the world and story, and they also happen as a result of character flaws and mistakes meaning they're perfectly grounded in the world. They make for huge shocking moments which feel totally earned and leave big lasting consequences on the world and the characters going forward.

I guess the second half of GoT provides lots of examples of how not to do character deaths, with consequences being non-existent or quickly swept under the rug and meaningful buildup also being non-existent for most.

About the marvel ones

Spoiler for Hidden:
The snapped thing was great imo. Sure they didn't stay dead but it made for a shocking cliffhanger and it had plenty of consequences. If it wasn't for the snap we wouldn't have lost Iron Man, Black Widow and Cap from the world. We've already seen in Spidey FFH that this has consequences for characters and the world. Losing Loki was big for Thor's character and I hope we see more of that in Thor 4. Gamora is a huge death with big consequences for Quill and the Guardians!

Just because we haven't seen all the consequences yet doesn't mean there aren't any. And I'd argue Endgame and Spidey FFH have done a great job so far of showing the consequences of everything that happened. One I'd agree on is Black Widow, her death was kind of meaningless in the end and people moved on quickly, that's my biggest gripe with Endgame.

Spoiler for Hidden:
<br>I like the snap. Jumping forward 5 years was pretty cool and something I didn&#39;t expect the movie to delve into.<br><br>I specifically just didn&#39;t like it from the death perspective. Worked better imo when they were thematically treated as missing.<br><br><br><div style="margin:20px; margin-top:5px"><div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px"><b>Spoiler</b> for <i>Hidden</i>: <input type="button" value="Show" style="width:60px;font-size:10px;margin:0px;padding:0px;" onClick="if (this.parentNode.parentNode.getElementsByTagName('div')[1].getElementsByTagName('div')[0].style.display != '') { this.parentNode.parentNode.getElementsByTagName('div')[1].getElementsByTagName('div')[0].style.display = ''; this.value = 'Hide'; } else { this.parentNode.parentNode.getElementsByTagName('div')[1].getElementsByTagName('div')[0].style.display = 'none'; this.value = 'Show'; }"></div><div class="alt2" style="margin: 0px; padding: 6px; border: 1px inset;"><div style="display: none;"><br>spiderman ffh spoiler.<br><br><br>The ending in New York with Peter&#39;s identity is great. It&#39;s a perfect setup where the unexpected happens but specifically on the death side, it so perfectly repaints Myserio&#39;s final actions.<br></div></div></div><br>

Xevross

Spoiler for Hidden:

I like the snap. Jumping forward 5 years was pretty cool and something I didn't expect the movie to delve into.

I specifically just didn't like it from the death perspective. Worked better imo when they were thematically treated as missing.


Spoiler for Hidden:

spiderman ffh spoiler.


The ending in New York with Peter's identity is great. It's a perfect setup where the unexpected happens but specifically on the death side, it so perfectly repaints Myserio's final actions.


Oh I see what you mean, fair enough :P

And yeah that's another good one.