The Last of Us Part 2 |OT| Play Phase

[the-pi-guy]

Sorry, i was to busy to make a real post. But its an awesome review and explains the game well. And one this isnt hating on the game like most of the ones on youtube

Yeah.  

Some of the reviews are just dumb.

Spoiler for Hidden:

<br>One review I saw was trying to argue that the game made Ellie look like a monster and that Abby was being forced to look like a saint.<br>And then two minutes later starts talking about how the game is making Abby look like a monster. &nbsp;<br><br>Well which is it?<br><br>

I said it before it's so stupid how people are upset about the fact that ND lied about the story in their advertising.  

Spoiler for Hidden:

<br>ND literally did the same thing the first game. &nbsp;They claimed Joel was the only character. &nbsp;<br>They lied to protect the plot. &nbsp;<br><br>Sure lying is bad, but the response to it makes it way worse than it is. &nbsp;<br><br>It&#39;s just really irritating when someone is complaining about this game, claims they loved the first game, and yet all their complaints about this game is stuff that was true of the first game. &nbsp;<br>

We can talk about how the story structure had some issues, or plot holes, stuff like that.  
People can even think that the story pulled some cheap shots.

But so many of the complaints

Spoiler for Hidden:

<br>-are about how people think LGBT stuff is being thrown down their throat. <br>-are from people that just clearly didn&#39;t get the point of the story.<br><br><br>And some are a little more complicated, like it seems like people just didn&#39;t give Abby a chance. &nbsp;Apparently some people literally stopped playing the game when the switch happened. &nbsp;<br>

I just wish there was healthier dialogue about this game.

[Legend]

The game never really "clicked" with me. I played SOMA recently for example and that game was so much more transformative for me.

I understand people who did not like the game and I understand people who really did not like the game.



Yet so much discussion is just stupid or is amplified by stupid. Like some people think they have cracked the pretentious game by noticing how dogs are used to manipulate player emotions. These same people however don't notice they spent the whole game walking towards the next bright area like a moth. There could be a great discussion about the dogs, about NPC names, and everything else since it could genuinely ruin the experience for people yet instead it's almost always part of a larger hate train.

[the-pi-guy]

Thinking about it.  

Something the first game did better.  


The first game is structured as one big adventure.  It's split up by a lot of these little light heart felt moments. Ellie picks up a toy.  Talks about a game.  We meet some other stragglers along the way.  

This game doesn't really have much of this.

Instead this game seems to have fewer but bigger moments. A few minute cut scene, a fairly lengthy flash back.

They aren't set up like little heart felt moments that are part of your adventure.  Instead the heart felt moments mostly feel detached from the main adventure.  

And I think this is the big reason why I feel fonder about the first game.  

[Xevross]

Thinking about it.  

Something the first game did better.  


The first game is structured as one big adventure.  It's split up by a lot of these little light heart felt moments. Ellie picks up a toy.  Talks about a game.  We meet some other stragglers along the way.  

This game doesn't really have much of this.

Instead this game seems to have fewer but bigger moments. A few minute cut scene, a fairly lengthy flash back.

They aren't set up like little heart felt moments that are part of your adventure.  Instead the heart felt moments mostly feel detached from the main adventure.  

And I think this is the big reason why I feel fonder about the first game.  

Yep absolutely, this is the main reason the first game is clearly better.

[nnodley]

The hate laura bailey is getting on twitter right now is fudgy vile.  Gamers suck dog.

[Legend]

The hate laura bailey is getting on twitter right now is fudgy vile.  Gamers suck dog.

I wouldn't say gamers suck but yeah it's gross.

It's still amazes me that there has been so much hate against this game from so many different directions.

[Legend]

I think this game has 2 major flaws.

Spoiler for Hidden:

<br>Pacing. When Abby&#39;s section started I didn&#39;t want to play as her because I wanted to get back to the cliffhanger. Post cliffhanger the pacing was also really off for me. Every cut to black felt like the end.<br><br><br>Flashbacks/time jumps. A few short ones worked but most felt bad because of rpg mechanics. Why invest in loot and supplies when they don&#39;t matter? In Uncharted time jumps didn&#39;t really have this issue.<br><br>

[Xevross]

I think this game has 2 major flaws.

Spoiler for Hidden:

Pacing. When Abby's section started I didn't want to play as her because I wanted to get back to the cliffhanger. Post cliffhanger the pacing was also really off for me. Every cut to black felt like the end.


Flashbacks/time jumps. A few short ones worked but most felt bad because of rpg mechanics. Why invest in loot and supplies when they don't matter? In Uncharted time jumps didn't really have this issue.

Agree with both, although I don't think they're particularly big flaws for the game. Just stops the game from being truly best of the best.

[the-pi-guy]

I think this game has 2 major flaws.

Spoiler for Hidden:

Pacing. When Abby's section started I didn't want to play as her because I wanted to get back to the cliffhanger. Post cliffhanger the pacing was also really off for me. Every cut to black felt like the end.


Flashbacks/time jumps. A few short ones worked but most felt bad because of rpg mechanics. Why invest in loot and supplies when they don't matter? In Uncharted time jumps didn't really have this issue.

Spoiler for Hidden:

<br>Pacing is a big issue. <br><br>I think the biggest issue with the flashbacks is the pacing and it makes the story feel a bit more disjointed. &nbsp;<br>

[Legend]

Agree with both, although I don't think they're particularly big flaws for the game. Just stops the game from being truly best of the best.

I don't think they ruin the game either. Just that they are fundamental instead of nitpicks.

[Mmm_fish_tacos]

FUCKING HELL pic.twitter.com/Rm8cE3Cgrk

— Jack Saint (@LackingSaint) July 6, 2020

Do you think it would have worked better if you started off as abby? Then flashed back to the thing and then picked up as Ellie?

[Legend]

FUCKING HELL pic.twitter.com/Rm8cE3Cgrk

— Jack Saint (@LackingSaint) July 6, 2020

Do you think it would have worked better if you started off as abby? Then flashed back to the thing and then picked up as Ellie?

Spoiler for Hidden:

<br>Would have made the story worse. I loved killing all these minor people as Ellie and then seeing more of them as Abby, knowing what is to come.<br><br>Maybe instead they could have made the Abby section in Jackson longer. Made players already expect to play as her half the time.<br><br>

[Xevross]

FUCKING HELL pic.twitter.com/Rm8cE3Cgrk

— Jack Saint (@LackingSaint) July 6, 2020

Do you think it would have worked better if you started off as abby? Then flashed back to the thing and then picked up as Ellie?

No but we should have had 1 hour + of Abby's backstory at the start of the game imo. Perhaps it might not critically make it a better game but it would allow so many more people to get onboard with the story.

[the-pi-guy]

Nothing new here I don't think.  (I started writing this before Tacos posted)
All just reiterating what I've said. 

Spoiler for Hidden:

<br>The criticism around this game has been weird. <br><br>Personally the game is weird because it feels like one of the best flawed games I&#39;ve played. <br>There are some games that I&#39;ve played that I just have a hard time pointing to a fundamental flaw.&nbsp; Uncharted 2, Bloodborne are like this for me.&nbsp; Not that either are perfect.&nbsp; But I personally have a hard time picking out major issues I have with either. <br><br>But this game I feel like has a few major flaws, and something that isn&#39;t really a flaw, it just feels worse compared to the previous game.&nbsp; But I still enjoyed the heck of it. I&#39;ll get back to this.<br><br><br>The other part of weird criticism, is that it feels like ~80% of the criticism of this game isn&#39;t actually criticism of the game but just nonsense.&nbsp; <br><br>Like complaining that Abby is trans, when she isn&#39;t.&nbsp; <br><br>So there&#39;s a weird issue where people are mostly talking about nonsense.&nbsp; <br><br><br>Most of the criticism that I really disagree with seems to come in 2 categories:<br>-that the game is political (due to LGBT stuff mostly)<br>-People that just couldn&#39;t get over Joel&#39;s death (people thought Joel would never have gone into a room with people), (that having a woman kill him was a political thing), (I can&#39;t play as the woman who killed Joel)<br><br>It seems like a lot of the criticism comes from people who either didn&#39;t play the game or they went in expecting an agenda and they focused on everything that agreed with them.&nbsp; <br><br><br>Like Joel&#39;s scene:<br>-people thought that they were giving too much information.&nbsp; Like the Angry Legend review brought this up.&nbsp; But if you watch the scene, they give their name and basically a generic we live around here.&nbsp; And yet the angry Legend review had a skit where they were giving guard patrol information and everything else.&nbsp; <br>-people thought that Joel wouldn&#39;t have gone into that room.&nbsp; Despite the fact that they were chased by a horde of infected, and they basically saved Joel and Tommy&#39;s life.&nbsp; Even then, if you actually watch Joel, he&#39;s tensely looking around the room.&nbsp; Tommy is being more pleasant, and that&#39;s always been who he was.&nbsp; <br><br><br>It&#39;s just ridiculously frustrating.<br><br><br><br>I think the game has some fundamental issues with it&#39;s structure.&nbsp; I&#39;m not sure what the best thing to do would have been.&nbsp; <br><br>It doesn&#39;t feel like there&#39;s a perfect way to structure the story, a lot of it feels like pros and cons.&nbsp; <br><br><br>Like if you swapped Ellie and Abby, getting to know Abby before she kills Joel, it&#39;d be weird because the swap would be further back. It seems really hard to intertwine stories like this, while mostly retaining the surprises and continuity.&nbsp; <br><br>I almost think the best thing would have been to have Abby play in her own game between the first and second. Would have helped some people like the game better, but something would be lost.&nbsp; <br><br>It just feels like how ever the game were to get structured something would get lost because of it. <br>(Like Legend pointed out, the switch to Abby where you start humanizing the people that Ellie killed was pretty powerful. Swapping their story lines might have made Abby more relatable, but you would lose out on that humanization.)<br><br>Swapping between Ellie and Abby every day is another thing that could have happened.&nbsp; But it would have hurt some things. <br><br>I said before that the thing that really makes the first game shine by comparison, is that it was broken up by smaller lighter moments. It made Ellie feel human, when you had these little moments.&nbsp; No one gets that treatment in this game.&nbsp; It&#39;s not a flaw per se, it is just something that I think should have been changed.&nbsp; <br><br>The pacing is the other big issue I have with the game.&nbsp; Some of it comes with story structure, setting the players expectations better.&nbsp; I think I was like 2 hours in, when I was finally expecting that Abby&#39;s section would be 8-12 hrs long like Ellie&#39;s was.&nbsp; Before that I was expecting it to be half as long, to get back to the cliffhanger.&nbsp; <br><br>And overall it&#39;s just a really long game.&nbsp; Like I am certain another studio would have packaged it as 2 Uncharted sized games, that are each 10-12 hrs long. <br>

[Legend]

Nothing new here I don't think.  (I started writing this before Tacos posted)
All just reiterating what I've said.  

Spoiler for Hidden:

The criticism around this game has been weird.

Personally the game is weird because it feels like one of the best flawed games I've played.
There are some games that I've played that I just have a hard time pointing to a fundamental flaw.  Uncharted 2, Bloodborne are like this for me.  Not that either are perfect.  But I personally have a hard time picking out major issues I have with either.

But this game I feel like has a few major flaws, and something that isn't really a flaw, it just feels worse compared to the previous game.  But I still enjoyed the heck of it. I'll get back to this.


The other part of weird criticism, is that it feels like ~80% of the criticism of this game isn't actually criticism of the game but just nonsense.  

Like complaining that Abby is trans, when she isn't.  

So there's a weird issue where people are mostly talking about nonsense.  


Most of the criticism that I really disagree with seems to come in 2 categories:
-that the game is political (due to LGBT stuff mostly)
-People that just couldn't get over Joel's death (people thought Joel would never have gone into a room with people), (that having a woman kill him was a political thing), (I can't play as the woman who killed Joel)

It seems like a lot of the criticism comes from people who either didn't play the game or they went in expecting an agenda and they focused on everything that agreed with them.  


Like Joel's scene:
-people thought that they were giving too much information.  Like the Angry Legend review brought this up.  But if you watch the scene, they give their name and basically a generic we live around here.  And yet the angry Legend review had a skit where they were giving guard patrol information and everything else.  
-people thought that Joel wouldn't have gone into that room.  Despite the fact that they were chased by a horde of infected, and they basically saved Joel and Tommy's life.  Even then, if you actually watch Joel, he's tensely looking around the room.  Tommy is being more pleasant, and that's always been who he was.  


It's just ridiculously frustrating.



I think the game has some fundamental issues with it's structure.  I'm not sure what the best thing to do would have been.  

It doesn't feel like there's a perfect way to structure the story, a lot of it feels like pros and cons.  


Like if you swapped Ellie and Abby, getting to know Abby before she kills Joel, it'd be weird because the swap would be further back. It seems really hard to intertwine stories like this, while mostly retaining the surprises and continuity.  

I almost think the best thing would have been to have Abby play in her own game between the first and second. Would have helped some people like the game better, but something would be lost.  

It just feels like how ever the game were to get structured something would get lost because of it.
(Like Legend pointed out, the switch to Abby where you start humanizing the people that Ellie killed was pretty powerful. Swapping their story lines might have made Abby more relatable, but you would lose out on that humanization.)

Swapping between Ellie and Abby every day is another thing that could have happened.  But it would have hurt some things.

I said before that the thing that really makes the first game shine by comparison, is that it was broken up by smaller lighter moments. It made Ellie feel human, when you had these little moments.  No one gets that treatment in this game.  It's not a flaw per se, it is just something that I think should have been changed.  

The pacing is the other big issue I have with the game.  Some of it comes with story structure, setting the players expectations better.  I think I was like 2 hours in, when I was finally expecting that Abby's section would be 8-12 hrs long like Ellie's was.  Before that I was expecting it to be half as long, to get back to the cliffhanger.  

And overall it's just a really long game.  Like I am certain another studio would have packaged it as 2 Uncharted sized games, that are each 10-12 hrs long.

I agree with everything except

Spoiler for Hidden:

<br><br>I liked this game&#39;s lighter moments. Ellie in the space capsule was amazing.<br><br>Made old Ellie so much harder to see.